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Mama’s Family, Golden Girls and It's Always Sunny | 90s TV Babies

Melissa Roth: Weirding Way Media.

Amy Englehardt [Singing]: 80s TV Ladies, So sexy and so pretty. 80s TV Ladies, Steppin’ out into the city. 80s TV Ladies, often treated kind of sh-[wolf whistle]. Working hard for the money in a man’s world. 80s TV Ladies!

Sharon Johnson: Welcome to 80s TV ladies where we explore female driven television shows from the 1980s. I'm Sharon Johnson.

Susan Lambert Hatem: And I'm, Susan Lambert Hatem.

Sharon Johnson: How are you and your friends doing? January certainly was a tough month in Los Angeles.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Yes, it was. We're doing okay. Everybody I know is safe and their pets are safe and their families are safe. But a lot of people I know are still displaced. Some people lost their homes. So many in our community lost their school, their church, their synagogue, their business. So it's really pretty tragic. And you know, but there's also been a huge outpouring of support and community outreach and people trying to help. So in the description, we'll continue to keep some links for where you can volunteer or donate and if you need, to reach out for help. It's going to be a, going to take, you know, a decade, I think, to recover, I'm not sure. Altadena. We're near Altadena in the Pasadena area. And that community is so generational and kind of diverse, working class and it's got a lot of history and it's been built up over time and so that is just going to be hard. It'll never be what it was, but hopefully it will be something good and solid and it will recover.

Sharon Johnson: Yeah, it's been heartbreaking to watch it from a distance. I still haven't come back into town from the holidays. By the time this airs, I will be back. But, happily none of my friends have lost their houses. I only have one friend who lives in Sierra Madre, who, she lives about two or three blocks from the hillside in Sierra Madre. And there were some homes that were burned in that area, but not hers. Just a question of to what degree everybody else is affected because you just don't know until you get in there what you're going to find. But as I said, it's been heartbreaking to watch from a distance, but nevertheless, I have been heartened but not really surprised at the outpouring of support from my fellow Los Angelenos, coming together to try to help their neighbors, to try to help strangers, to just try to do something. And that alone has been really heartwarming to see. I'm just devastated for all the people that have experienced loss and disheartened to see some of the rhetoric coming from people who don't know any better or choose not to know any better about how all these rich people are getting what they deserve or, you know, it shouldn't matter to them when, by far, as usual, most of the people affected by this are not rich. Yeah, they're middle-class folks, you know, just working hard and getting by. And they're the ones that are most directly impacted by this in so many ways. And it's devastating on so many levels for them. And as I said, my heart breaks for them.

Susan Lambert Hatem: The infrastructure of a community supports a lot of people. So, we also know housekeepers who have lost their jobs because those homes that they worked at are gone and businesses and the employees of those businesses now have no job. So it has these rolling ramifications, as anybody who's been in a natural disaster of this size and scope has seen. And there's just, you know, there's very few cities that have the scope of Los Angeles in terms of square footage and population and infrastructure. And so when there's something that is quite this size, it really is daunting. I'm curious how it felt to be outside. I feel like it would have been worrisome to also be not home when this was happening because we didn't know what was going to happen that night when the winds and the fire started.

Sharon Johnson: I felt helpless more than anything else. There's nothing I can do. I'm not there happily where I live. I was not worried about my dwelling going up in smoke. I mean, as I kept telling people, if my place is gone, we have a lot more problems than we do now because it would have been so much worse than it is and fire would be spreading into many, many more areas than it already has. So I wasn't worried about it from that standpoint. I was just worried about the people that I know and especially those in areas that were close to where the fires were or could be. Like you guys, I kept watching and looking at maps and where the fire was and the evacuation or the. From that standpoint, I just really felt really helpless.

Susan Lambert Hatem: When the fire started, you know, when the wind was blowing and we weren't quite sure which way the fire was going to go. There's always a sense of concern because of just the wind and the embers that were going everywhere. But we had people evacuate to our home and it was nice to be able to have that. There was a moment we were like, are we going to all have to evacuate from here to somewhere else when they move the warning. So the Rose Bowl is often a staging and or evacuation for large animals. And when they basically were like, Rose Bowl can't be that, because it's now under evacuation warning, that's when I think it became like, we might have to be prepared. And we at that point had a lot of people in our house and dogs and, like, where would we take all of us? Yeah. yeah. But I'm very grateful for our neighbors. We were all kind of constantly in touch, and everybody had people somewhere in the area. And so, again, it was a lot of neighbors helping neighbors and the community coming together. And I hope that continues, and I hope that people who are trying to make the worst of it keep their mouth shut and go away. because if you're not gonna help, you don't say a word.

Sharon Johnson: Yeah.

Susan Lambert Hatem: You know?

Sharon Johnson: Yeah.

Susan Lambert Hatem: As my mom says, if you got nothing good to say, say nothing at all.

Sharon Johnson: And this is. This is not the time for you to try to make a name for yourself and point fingers. And there are people hurting, who need help, and that's what everything should be focused on right now.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Yeah.

Sharon Johnson: So there's plenty of time for the rest of it. Not now.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Yeah. I mean, whatever. So anyway, yeah.

Sharon Johnson: Namaste.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Namaste.

Sharon Johnson: Meanwhile, we are here today to talk to the 90s TV Babies about Mama’s Family.

Susan Lambert Hatem: I've been missing the 90s TV Babies so much.

Sharon Johnson: Yeah. Yeah. So, unfortunately, one of our regular 90s TV Babies couldn't join us today. Sergio says hello to everyone, and he will be back soon. Fortunately, though, we have a new special guest star 90s TV Baby, joining us today, and we can't wait to introduce her to you.

Susan Lambert Hatem: So welcome back to 80s TV Ladies the smart and sassy, clever and classy 90s TV Babies Serita Fontanessi, Megan Ruble, and the newest member of the 90s TV Babies, Sailor Franklin.

Sharon Johnson: Welcome back, everyone. And welcome, Sailor.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Welcome, Sailor. Welcome, everybody. I'm so happy to see your faces.

Megan Ruble: Yay, Sailor. Thank you.

Sailor Franklin: Hi. I'm really excited to be on, so.

Susan Lambert Hatem: I think we should do a little round of introductions. Sailor, you get to go first because you have the most to say about yourself.

Sailor Franklin: Great. Yeah.

Susan Lambert Hatem: So tell us where you're from, where you're living now. something joyful that happened. Oh, I don't know. Last day, month. If you have to go back a year, that's fine, too. And, what were you interested in?

Sailor Franklin: Oh, boy. So, hi, I'm Sailor. I'm originally from Indiana, but I was born here in California, moved out to Indiana. Grew up there. And then, recently, like two years ago, I've moved back and I've been kind of pursuing art. I'm really into art and storyboarding, but I've really dipped my hands into any sort of, like, creative medium. Like, whether it's traditional art, digital art, theater, musicals, directing, video editing, audio editing. The list goes on and on and on. I'm kind of a Jack of all trades situation, which is how I came to be friends with Susan. I was really caught off by the very joyful thing. I mean, there's there. I'm sure I'm thankful for lots of stuff in my life, but it's hard to pin down one on the spot. I don't know. I'm going to be moving soon, which is exciting.

Sharon Johnson: And where are you moving to?

Sailor Franklin: I'm moving to Pasadena.

Sharon Johnson: Oh, fun.

Megan Ruble: Awesome.

Sharon Johnson: Ah.

Sailor Franklin: That's why everything behind me is in a state of disarray. It's-- Plus with the fires-- Currently I'm in Santa Clarita, and so the Hughes fires were kind of scary for a little bit, but then they calmed down.

Sharon Johnson: A lot of that going around in the greater Los Angeles area lately.

Sailor Franklin: No, it's great.

Serita Fontenessi: Yeah.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Just when you thought you were, you were out, those fires pulled you back in.

Sailor Franklin: Something about there's earthquakes and fires and mudslides and, I don't know, something about the California area or the LA area specifically feels like-- I don't know.  

Susan Lambert Hatem: It used to just be earthquakes and then, like, the fires happened, but they weren't quite like this.

Sailor Franklin: Locusts are going to come next. I don't know.

Sharon Johnson: Yeah.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Serita. It's been a while.

Serita Fontenessi: Hi. Hello. Serita. Yeah, I am still here in Austin. We are moving at the end of the week, which is really exciting. We bought our first home, so that's cool. Becoming a landowner. And we're also really excited because I'm ten and a half weeks pregnant.

Sailor Franklin: Congratulations.

Sharon Johnson: Oh, my God, that's so awesome. Oh, gosh. Congratulations. Oh, my gosh. Oh, boy.

Susan Lambert Hatem: I literally cannot wait. How long do we have to wait?

Serita Fontenessi: So I'm gonna have planed C-section at 37 weeks, so it'll be like the first week of August. So as a Leo. I am having a Leo. That's very exciting.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Oh, my God.

Serita Fontenessi: For anyone who's interested. but yeah, we're going to do a California baby shower and a Texas, uh, baby shower.

Susan Lambert Hatem: All right, but you let me know.

Megan Ruble: Okay.

Serita Fontenessi: That's the big news over here.

Sharon Johnson: Well, that's huge news. And wonderful, wonderful, wonderful news. Congratulations.

Susan Lambert Hatem: That's freaking joyful.

Megan Ruble: So exciting.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Megan, you're up.

Sharon Johnson: How do you follow that?

Megan Ruble: Hi, I'm Megan and none of my news is that exciting. I am not moving. Still here in NoHo. But yeah, I don't know what is exciting right now. I have a lot of things in the works, which is wonderful, but nothing that I can announce officially yet because we don't have dates. But working on some exciting stuff for 2025 as a producer, which is always fun. Here I can say this. I got. My friend and I have been working together for almost two years now and officially have titles. So I'm the executive producer of Day for Night Productions and we have Shakes on the Rock since 2018. So going into whatever year that is of this and introducing a new TTRPG project which ideally will have a-- We're building a game. So it will, ideally, we know we're going to have a live element, but also will ideally have a brand new TTRPG based on one of our 80s horror slasher shows from two years ago. And, yeah, what else? And then hopefully a new ghost story-based fringe project for 2025 as well. Yeah, as an actor, just doing all that life, you know, back to auditioning. Finished my third year on the Polar Express. Somehow didn't break my body dancing on a moving train. And yeah, just back to auditioning.

Susan Lambert Hatem: That is fantastic.

Sharon Johnson: It's so good to see all of you just living and doing and moving things forward. That's awesome.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Yeah, I'm really happy as soon as I see your faces, I get a little bit of joy going on here that I didn't have in my broken, little sad, cavernous heart. Oh, my gosh. All right. But this is also, weirdly, your first appearance in season three. And of course in 2025, that, felt insane to me. I was like, no, no, we had to have thm on. But there's been a lot of episodes that we did. We sort of did a little look back in October on Scarecrow & Mrs. King and, had Bruce Boxleitner on, which was super fun. And had on a bunch of other episodes that we've had for a while. And then we got to. We started Mama’s Family. And so we are wrapping up Mama’s Family with you guys. And so I cannot wait very much.

Sharon Johnson: Looking forward to hearing, as usual, what you guys think of the latest show that we've had. You take a look back on, or in your case, perhaps the first look at  

Susan Lambert Hatem: Professor Johnson, would you, like to start with what our assignment was?

Sharon Johnson: Sure. There were six episodes plus some extra credit. The six episodes started with the pilot episode-- season one, episode one-- called Vint and the Kids Move in, where Mama's son Vint moves in with his two children to invade her, not solitude. Well, not solitude, but relative quiet. And then season one, episode six, Cellmates. To celebrate Eunice's birthday, Vinton, Ed and Mama hold a surprise party at the Bigger Jigger. And it doesn't go well, as you can well imagine, and hilarity ensues. We assigned You Guys Season 1, episode 4, the Wedding Part 2, which is the second episode about Vint and Naomi's wedding. Season 2, episode 3, Country Club. Mama's daughter Ellen, played by Betty White, is a member of a highbrow country club that selected her to receive a Woman of the Year award. And much to her surprise, Mama and the rest of the family show up as well to see her get her award. And then the last one we assigned was season two, episode 21, Ask Aunt Fran. Fran has taken over writing a local newspaper advice column, and she finds that Mama's down-to-earth advice works better than her own psychological approach. So those were the assigned episodes.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Now then, there were some extra credit. Yes, there were some extra credit episodes. Season, one, Episode two, Rashomama. One of my favorite episodes. But not to sway you guys at all, because I know you already have made your opinion, but, Naomi, Ellen and Eunice give their own version of how Mama got hurt. And then season three, episode one, Farewell Franny. Aunt Franny has died. And, Eunice's juvenile delinquent son Bubba arrives unexpectedly. So I wanted to give at least some season three because that was when the show came back in syndication with sort of a different cast and sort of new family members, and we lost some family members. And then season three, episode 11, Where There's Smoke, Mama's plans for the Church Ladies League presidency is jeopardized when Bubba has run away from reform school.

Sharon Johnson: The extra, extra credit was something that we thought would be interesting to watch because it's the genesis. It's the very first sketch on the Carol Burnett show where Mama and Eunice and the rest of the family appear. So it gives you a sense of where it started. And we only gave you episodes in seasons one through three because those are available for free various places, and we'll list where that is later. Those are easily found. So, can't wait to hear what you think.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Okay, I Don't even know who to start with. I cannot wait.

Sharon Johnson: Should we start with our newbie? Should we give her. Should we have her go first?

Susan Lambert Hatem: Okay, so, general thoughts. What did you think of Mama’s Family, the 80s sitcom Sailor?

Sailor Franklin: Pick on the newbie first. It was definitely interesting. I mean, I think I had never heard of Mama’s Family before this. I had heard of Carol Burnett. I was only, like, vaguely aware of, you know, the Carol Burnett Show. Most of what I knew was, like, from little clips my family would play, especially, like, the outtakes of all of them cracking up. I did the homework. I did the extra credit, and I did the extra, extra credit because I'm subbing in for my dear friend Sergio, and I've got to step up and show out. So, I went back and watched those, and I realized one of the clips that I always loved watching with my family about the elephant at the freak show that always cracked everybody up was actually a Mama’s Family sketch. I was like, wait a minute, I know this one. And who is that? But Carol Burnett and Vicki Lawrence and Tim Conway.

Sharon Johnson: Yes, yes.

Sailor Franklin: Like I said, I did my homework. I feel like, especially watching the first couple of episodes I watched straight through episode one to episode four, because I'm like, it's only two episodes between. And I got more kind of context for it all, and my brain just kept going, oh, it's like Golden Girls, which. It's sort of like Golden Girls, But I think it was the reoccurring, Rue McClanahan and Betty White that was just like, oh, it's Golden Girls. And it's like, it's not Golden Girls. Take a step back, Sailor. Everybody in that show is a lot more at each other's neck than Golden Girls. I don't want to keep comparing it, but that's like, my 80s television was Golden Girls and recently Moonlighting.

Sharon Johnson: That was also on your mind as you were watching it, too. So it makes sense that that's part of what your thought pattern was as you were watching it.

Sailor Franklin: I definitely think Mama Harper was my favorite. Just I love a character that can immediately think of a quick, snappy comeback to say and just lay anybody out. That was a joy to watch. And all of the other characters, I mean, I love Rue McClanahan, whatever she's in. The husband that came back and lived with them is a bumbling man, as is what I've discovered. Every man in this series was. I mean, no one in this show was, like, a fantastic person. They loved and cared about each other, but they were definitely at each other's throats the entire time. And, I think this is my modern TV brain talking, but I'm like, it's people who don't quite like each other but stick together out of love who do not quite the right thing and are at each other's throats. Like I said. I'm like, this is giving me a little bit of definitely not to the same extent, but, It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia. But they take it to a farcical extent in that show. I am in no way saying that these are, you know, one in the same. I just. It had a smattering of that.

Susan Lambert Hatem: I-- That's so interesting. Oh, my God. Okay. That is very exciting. Serita, I saw you were nodding at some things. I'm curious. Did you know Mama’s Family? Carol Burnett and what'd you think?

Serita Fontenessi: Yeah, so I don't think I'd ever seen, like, a full episode of Mama’s Family before. It was one of those shows that was, like, either on really early in the morning or kind of late at night, and you sort of, like, clicked through. We were certainly a Family Matters house. Shocking no one. So, yeah, like, I wasn't very familiar. I have always known of the Carol Burnett Show, but again, like, didn't have a ton of, like, context around it other than, like, some 30 Rock references. Right. So very much came into it super. Like, I don't know what I'm getting myself into fully. I 1000% agree with the, It's Always Sunny vibes. This is certainly a much more tame, 80s version of It's Always Sunny. Sure. But in the sense of there isn't really anyone that you're really rooting for. They're all kind of awful to each other. But if any outsider were to come in and be the problem, they would all band together to get that person back or, like, get one over on them, whatever. And so I think that. And, like, the son kind of reminds me of, like, a Charlie Day character where he's just sort of this, like. Like, maybe not quite as, like, lovable as Charlie sometimes is, but just sort of this, like, goof that, like, is pretty easy to, like, convince of anything and, like, gets taken advantage of in that way, but. But also, does things that are absolutely maddening and irritating. So any bit of sympathy that you had, you're like, listen, I don't know how to help you with that. I also had to keep reminding myself that this is not Golden Girls. So I can't expect Blanche Devereaux to come waltzing through. So that definitely took a minute to adjust to as, someone who's like, I've watched Golden Girls start to finish so many times. Certainly those are characters that are deeply embedded in my mind. I also found it really fascinating, and this may be jumping ahead a little bit, but the men were significantly more the butt of the joke in this show than the women were, which is super non-traditional, whatever in that type of writing, especially at that time, which. That's the point of the show. That's why we're here. But I still. I enjoyed that and found that really interesting to see. Not just the matriarch really driving the story, but the men are kind of always waiting around for the women to either give them approval of something, give them validation for something, give them direction for something. And we see that trope in later shows of the bumbling husbands and the goofy sidekicks, whatever. But it was just really interesting to see it in this kind of closed set of this family dynamic. Because I also think that oftentimes when we hear stories of families that have a matriarch in particular, they're always this enigma, this revered, incredible, huge figure. And Mama certainly has a personality, but she in no way is this esteemed figure, but still really commands the family and therefore pushes the story of the show.

Sharon Johnson: Oh, fantastic.

Susan Lambert Hatem: That is so. I'm so excited about the Golden Girls, which I see because it's got two cast members, but the Always Sunny in Philadelphia is such an interesting comparison. I would never have looked at that. But now that you say it, it makes a lot of sense.

Sharon Johnson: Well, dare I admit, I have never seen one episode of It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia. I'm aware of it.

Megan Ruble: You’re a better person— As a huge Always Sunny fan, you are a better person because you have not watched it.

Serita Fontenessi: Yeah, like, I just watched the Abbott Elementary crossover, and, like, Quinta Brunson was talking in an interview, and she was like, to all my Abbott Elementary fans, if you've never watched It's Always Sunny, you don't need to watch the crossover, like, with them. With, like, Abbott Elementary cast in Philadelphia.

Megan Ruble: I'm so scared to watch that episode because it's like—

Serita Fontenessi:  It's great.  

Megan Ruble: The cast of Abbott Elementary is like, what if the best people who ever existed had a hard time and Always Sunny-- What if the worst people who ever existed just existed?

Serita Fontenessi: Honestly, it was such a great episode. We can. We can talk about it later, but I had a great time watching.

Megan Ruble: Oh, man. Okay. I can't wait.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Oh, my God. All right, Megan.

Megan Ruble: I-- Hi. I feel like I. Wait, I'm gonna chime in on the Always Sunny thing first. I think the only. I do totally see that parallel. Thank you for pointing that out, Sailor. That's so good. I think the only thing where I'm like, oh, this is different, is Always Sunny is the worst people of all time doing awful things and still being selfish. They really don't care about it. That's why it's, basically a parody in a lot of ways, of a sitcom. Whereas, like, yeah, everyone in Mama’s Family is awful, but they're trying. Or at least in the episodes that I watched, they're trying to be better. They're trying to love each other. They're just broken. And I think that's what takes it from being something like Always Sunny, which is very much. Again, I love that show. It's hilarious. But this is heartwarming. And I think that's what puts it very firmly in that category is you feel warm because it's people like you who. Well, hopefully not ideally like you. Other broken people who are trying to love.

Sailor Franklin: Well, that's what I think is fascinating because we have, like, in the. In the smack dab middle is Mama’s Family, where it's like, not the greatest people, but they have a little heart. And then we go to this end of the spectrum, which let's. We're going to this end of the spectrum, and it's like, It's Always Sunny, which is the worst people ever. And maybe one episode a season, they will have a heart to heart.

Megan Ruble: Or like Seinfeld.  

Sailor Franklin: And it will last for five minutes, and then it will be immediately undercut with some awful thing that they do. And then I think on the other end, on the complete opposite spectrum, is Golden Girls, because I feel like in an episode of Golden Girls, it's always, like, driven by heart. And, like, every single episode of Golden Girls ends with, like, we had an argument, and I can't believe we did that. You're my best friend, and let's. Let's promise never to do that again. And it's always, like, a heartwarming ending. And I feel like Mama’s Family is, like, right in the middle there. It's more powered by spite than heart, but it's still there, you know? Yeah, that's my, It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia to Golden Girls sitcom spectrum, I guess.

Megan Ruble: What a great spectrum. What a weird spectrum, but it's perfect. No, and I think that's what, I feel like I always qualify my opinion on here. But I think it is important. I think that's one of the things where, like, as I was watching it, I don't think any of them will listen to this. And, if they do, I mean it as a compliment. It made me miss one side of my family a whole lot because I was like, oh, yeah, my grandmother is absolutely that person who, like, somebody is always living there, always. And it's. She never wants them or she does. Like, she does, but she doesn't. she's always like, I just to be alone, but somebody's always there. And there I've been present for those arguments that are just like, do you guys like, no, you love each other. Why are we speaking to each other this way? But like, it, it's. It encapsulates that family dynamic so well and makes fun of it while also being like, yeah, but there's, like, there's a lot of heart and there's a lot of care here. and I think that that spectrum that you just set up, Sailor, is so perfect because reality tends to live in the middle of that. Right. And so while it being completely hilarious and very big humor, it felt very real. And especially the. Was it Cellmates? The mother-daughter dynamic that gets broken down there. And also you have just moments of complete crazy Carol Burnett hilarity, which we don't really do right now. Whatever is going on in TV and film, we don't have humor like that right now. And I miss it. And so it's so fun to watch, but then also to watch a heart to heart of. Yeah, maybe we haven't been to each other what we could be or what we want the other person to be. And maybe part of it is our. Our own fault. Yeah, it’s such a true mother-daughter dynamic that I see a lot and have experienced a lot. And like, it was so lovely to see that reflected. The other thing I was thinking as I was watching it too, is a conversation I've had with multiple people recently of, we really don't have sitcoms in a, more classical sense anymore. Even like Abbott Elementary, which is technically a sitcom. Right? Or, well, Always Sunny we'll put to the side for a second. But like, they are constantly growing. There's a tone to Abbott Elementary that is very clear. But, like, that story is moving forward at all points in time. It isn't like a lot of classical sitcoms that we see that are. You could miss three weeks and come back and, honestly, you haven't missed anything. You can just pick it back up. There's a recognizable rhythm. It's very soothing. And I think in our world being extra chaotic in the not even month we've made it through so far, at least in LA and definitely throughout the US as well. That's really comforting. It's really comforting to sit in something that you can engage with the storyline, but if you don't, there's still that pulse to it. There's something that just kind of feels like a warm blanket story wise around you. And so it was really nice to watch something that had that tone to it.

Sharon Johnson: Okay, we're going to take a little break and we'll be right back with more of this fantastic conversation with our 90s TV Babies.

Susan Lambert Hatem: And we're back. I can't wait. Let's go, 90S TV Babies.

Sharon Johnson: Serita and Megan, I take it you watched the assignment, the assigned episodes. But I'm also wondering what exposure, if any, to Mama’s Family before we started doing this or to the characters from the Carol Burnett show at all. Sailor,had mentioned she had seen, seen a couple of videos over time. I don't know if any of those had ever crossed your path at some point.

Serita Fontenessi: No, I know Carol Burnett in terms of like cultural phenom.

Sharon Johnson: Right.

Serita Fontenessi: But like, couldn't say like a specific character sketch or something. So I think also what was interesting for me coming into Mama’s Family without having that like, context was like, I feel it was just like, who are these people? What are these people? I don't know how we got here. Right. And again, like, really only knowing Carol Burnett in terms of like being referenced and like the Carol Burnett Show being referenced in other and like more contemporary shows of like, okay, yeah, like I get who you are as sort of like, yeah, just this cultural figure, but like, I don't really have any like, depth to that.

Sharon Johnson: Megan, what about you?

Megan Ruble: Yeah, I also came in completely cold and I thought about looking some stuff up and then I went, no, I'm just gonna, I'm just gonna watch it. So Carol Burnett came on screen. I was like, oh my goodness, Carol Burnett. But yeah, completely cold. Hadn't heard of the show.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Yeah, now, but you had heard of Carol Burnett. Had you watched any Carol Burnett?

Megan Ruble: I've watched a little bit. and I think I've only seen clips. I don't think I've sat down and actually I know I have not sat down and watched the Carol Burnett Show. And I Probably should, because I'd probably love it. But, yeah, I've seen clips of certain sketches, but not this one.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Yeah.

Megan Ruble: So no clue.

Susan Lambert Hatem: That is so fascinating to me. I mean, Carol Burnett was such a cultural. She was sort of the Lucy of her.

Megan Ruble: Oh, yeah.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Time. And yet she was also like, female-run variety show. Megan, I would very much say you should go and watch some of the top Carol Burnett, because just as an actress and a comedian, which I know that is some incredible work. And I will also say that the first family sketch that you guys watched was Roddy McDowell as the son that's come back. That's the Pulitzer Prize winning Eunice's brother. Right, Eunice's brother, yeah. And then the next sketch, because there were a ton of them in the Carol Burnett show, but the next sketch, Alan Alda is a son that's come back and is a successful commercial illustrator. But they don't understand what that means, so they think he's just out of a job all the time because he works freelance. And so it's just like those two are actually very much sort of establishing kind of what's in some way missing from the Mama’s Family sitcom, which is a normal person being dropped in. If you want to keep going, I highly recommend at least the Alan Alda, the next one. That one's quite lovely. And in that same episode, she and Alan Alda sing a duet. Megan, I highly recommend. You see that? It's beautiful. You should all see it. But I know Megan will in particular.

Megan Ruble: This is a podcast, so I'm going to clarify the faces that I made through that. I'm sorry, love of my life, Alan Alda? What? Singing?

Sharon Johnson: Well, it was also one of the beautiful things about that era of television when you would get to see actors, actresses from various walks of television and film life come on these variety shows and do things that they don't do anywhere else or haven't done anywhere else for five minutes on a show in a sketch. It's really pretty amazing.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Yeah.

Sharon Johnson: And I think one of the other things you'll find if you do have a chance to go back and watch some of those things, is the tenor of the show on Mama’s Family is much different than how it evolves on the Carol Burnett Show. It's a much more just kind of, oh, this wacky family kind of show. And it kind of gets a little serious sometimes with Carol Burnett, which was also really interesting for this comedy show. Of the episodes you watched, anyone or couple that you particularly enjoyed? so the.

Serita Fontenessi: So the country club one reminded me of a, friend's wedding that I went to a few years ago where her, like, closest male relatives, like, all of her uncles, like, we had grown up together in a small town in New Mexico. They got to the wedding reception, and they were mad that the bar didn't have Coors Light, so they went to the CVS next door and bought, like, two 30 racks of Coors Light and had it put behind the bar as if somebody else was going to want to drink their Coors Light. And, like, my friend, like, the wedding, it was just wine and beer, but, like, it was wine from this, like, local winery and, like, locally made beer, like, craft beers. And they were like, where's the Coors Light? And that was all I could think about during that episode of, just, like, wow. It really. It really is your own people who will, like, embarrass you in ways that, like, you cannot imagine. Like, it was a wedding, right? So we all know each other. We've all grown up together. We are very aware of these men and how they are. And also couldn't help but be like, God, this is so embarrassing for Janae. Like, I can't believe they're doing this. So, like, that one, like, really spoke to me in a very specific way. Also, I love mess. So the whole episode around the grave plot, I was like, yes, let's get into it. Because I was like, these are people who will absolutely act a fool. Like, I am ready for. However, this is gonna unravel itself. So I think I had the most fun with those two. So I.

Megan Ruble: So I. And, to clarify, I don't think I answered this. I only did the assignment. I did no extra credit this time. It was not for lack of wanting. It was for lack of time.

Sharon Johnson: Totally understand. Perfectly fine.

Megan Ruble: I think. Yeah, Country Club definitely stood out to me. I also just love that dynamic. I really love the dynamic of, like, the highbrow and the low brow and exposing how dumb both of them are. Yeah, absolutely wonderful. Also, just, like, her getting a little standup routine in the last quarter of the episode, I was like, this is fantastic.

Serita Fontenessi: Absolutely.

Megan Ruble: I want this. And then, yeah, Cellmates, I kind of mentioned it before, but I think I really liked that in a very silly series, there was a moment where we got to be serious, and there was a moment where we got to address something that is very nuanced but fairly universal, at least. I love wacky actors. I really, really do. And I love that usually they are also incredible serious actors as well. So Speaking of Alan Alda, every time he gets to have a genuine moment on M*A*S*H. Brilliant, right? Carol Burnett getting to have a very serious moment to drop in and be like, actually, I'm very hurt. Lovely. Really love that. So, yeah, I'd say those were my two favorites.

Sailor Franklin: I also really liked the Cellmates episode. It was a really beautiful moment between a mother and a daughter. I have an observation. Not to skew this away, but if I had a nickel for every time in a sitcom some of the main characters were arrested, put in the same cell, and mistaken as sex workers by another lady of the night arrested, I would have two or three nickels, which isn't a lot. But it's weird. It's happened that many times. Like, it happened on Golden Girls. It happened on Mama’s Family, and it's in A Different World. I know, Whitley and what's his name's mother got arrested in the Thanksgiving episode. I don't remember if the second part or the. The lady of the ight part happened, but I do. Like, what is it with sitcom characters getting arrested and put all in the same cell? It happened on Seinfeld, but that's a 90s show. But--

Susan Lambert Hatem: And Designing Women.

Sailor Franklin: And just see, it's a trope.  

Susan Lambert Hatem: It's a trope.

Sailor Franklin: It's a reoccurring trope.

Serita Fontenessi: It's such a perfect way to force a whole episode to only be on two or three characters. Right? It's a really easy. In terms of confining where the plot can be. And also, I think to the other thing that you mentioned, we are just now even starting one, to call sex workers sex workers, two, to acknowledge it as real and valid work. And even that is, like, in some places, like, a burgeoning mindset.

Sharon Johnson: Right?

Serita Fontenessi: And so, like, ah, when you think about, like, who is it easy to take a joke at that quote, everyone will laugh at. Like, that is a, like, population or, like, demographic. And like, oh, how embarrassing. Someone thought you were a sex worker in jail. It's like that actually, like, who cares? Like, whatever. But like, it's like a-- It's an easy jab to take. And I think. And again, I can't even really say that. Like, oh, it kind of dates the show because I guarantee those jokes are still happening now. And that's a sign of how far and how not far we have come. but it serves both plot device and especially when I'm thinking of the different world one. because it's Dwayne's mom, which is Patti LaBelle. And so you've got Patti LaBelle and Jasmine Guy being forced into a jail cell and mistaken as, like, jail people. I don't know. Whatever. And, like, that's hilarious. Like, how silly. It's Patti LaBelle.

Sailor Franklin: I do think I agree with what you said. Like, it's super easy for people to take sex workers and, you know, throw a jab at them. What I did, like, about what they did in Mama’s Family is, like, Scarlet. I remember her name, which is. That's a miracle, because I don't remember any of the other characters. I remember Scarlet because she was great.

Megan Ruble: I loved her.

Sailor Franklin: She was no nonsense. She put Eunice in her place. It was. It was a joy to watch.

Serita Fontenessi: They also love that, like, we had to force the husband to acknowledge Scarlet. Like, let's not forget sex work exists because of clients. Right? Like, we always want to put it on the sex worker, but, like, they wouldn't be in business if people weren't pulling up.

Megan Ruble: I think it was also not perfectly done, but kind of cool, because once. Yeah, once a sex worker was introduced, I was like, oh, this will be interesting. A lot of the jokes actually, though, were. Scarlet was the normal person, and the jokes were, what is wrong with you two? And I don't think that was exclusive. I'd have to go back and rewatch it to see if that was exclusively true. But I did think that that was kind of cool, that it was like, oh, this person's gonna be the butt of all of these jokes. And that wasn't actually fully true. Like, it was very much Mama and Eunice, where it was like, Scarlett was the only person paying attention to Mama and was like, you guys are messed up.

Sailor Franklin: That goes back to something that Susan said earlier where she was like, everybody in this family is crazy. What Mama’s Family lacks is a straight man most of the time to, like, bounce off and be like, what are these crazy people doing? Maybe. I think the audience truly is the straight man who just has to sit and watch this.

Megan Ruble: There is no in for the audience. You're just here, buckle up.

Sailor Franklin: They're along for the ride. But, yes, Cellmates was great. It was just the. The idea of a mother just not telling everything to a daughter is, I'm sure, something that a lot of people can relate to, especially when it's about very personal things, like their family. Speaking of, watching this episode made me appreciate something, which is, I'm so glad there's, like, less emphasis on getting married. As a young, entrepreneurial woman. Because every woman in this series, almost every woman, hates her husband, despises him, can't stop saying bad things about him or is worried about her husband cheating or something like that. And I'm like, it's, a different time. Because to me, it's like, but why did you marry him? And that's what they go into the episode. He was the last. Like, I tried marry for love, and I got screwed over. And then I tried putting out and got screwed over. So I just grabbed the nearest guy and married him. I'm like, God, I could never do that in a million years. Which is why, Aunt Fran is truly the winner in this case, because she never got married. She is Rue McClanahan.

Serita Fontenessi: At least we're, like, being honest for once, right? Like, there was part of me that kind of appreciated the like, yeah, listen, I got tired of trying and picked the closest guy. Might not be the choice I would make for myself. But, like, I think also this is where like, living in a small town also really comes up for me of, like, the number of people that I'm like, you two are miserable, and it's obvious and did you know, you don't have to be together, but, like, people will just pick, like, the comfort of, living this idea, this fantasy, whatever, and make themselves miserable through it. But at least we're being honest. Of, like, yeah, he's an idiot. Like, we're not really not in love, but, like, I wanted to be married, so I made a choice. I was like, all right, well, I can respect consenting adults making choices.

Sailor Franklin: Cellmates was great, but the real star was Rashomama, which I saw this episode list, and I saw Rashomama, and I'm like, whoa, that looks like Rashomon. And then I read the description. I'm like, this is Rashomon, the 1950 Akira Kurosawa movie. His Mama’s Family is doing like, like a, well renowned Japanese directors, like, great work. And this is. This hit, like, so, so in the right place for me because I am less of a TV person. I am far more of a movie person. Like 80s television Golden Girls, Moonlighting and Moonlighting only happened about two months ago. Loving it, by the way. So sad I missed the episode, but.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Oh, why did it happen for you?

Sailor Franklin: It's because I work for 134West, which I started doing, learned about Moonlighting. And I was talking to my father and he's like, oh, they did Moonlighting. They interviewed Glenn Gordon Caron, and, like, I enjoyed those episodes. And I had gone home for Christmas to Indiana. We were sitting, watching Die Hard, and then. My dad has mentioned Moonlighting to me many a time, almost always in the context of Die Hard, because we will be watching Die Hard and every single movie we watch together. We watched so many movies together. He's the person. He's the reason why I'm such a film buff. But we'll be watching Die Hard and he'll tell me, like, did you know that Bruce Willis was a nobody in a comedy show? He was filming that show in the day and filming Die Hard at night, and no one thought he could do it. And that was, like, the anecdote I heard for years and years and years. And then we finished Die Hard. I'm like, dad, why don't we watch Moonlighting? And over the course of the two and a half weeks I was back, I watched a season and a half of Moonlighting and then kept watching it. This is Mama’s Family. And that's the last I'm going to say about it. I could talk about Moonlighting forever, but that. That bus has left the station. Perhaps another day. Rashomama. I could not believe it. I love Akira Kurosawa. I've watched so many of his movies and seeing it recreated from. Recreated in Mama’s Family with Carol Burnett and Vicki Lawrence instead of Toshirô Mifune, that was crazy. It was great.

Susan Lambert Hatem: I thought it was beautifully done.

Sailor Franklin: Because that's exactly what happens in Rashomon. It's three people telling the same story from three different perspectives, and each of them is trying to make themselves look like the good guy. And I. I adored it. It was great. It was super fun seeing, like, each. Each person was acting their character, but to, like, different extremes because, you know it. From one person's perspective, Naomi is a just a ditz. In the other perspective, she is a. Let me find a choice word here. I'm still looking for the choice word. That's not gonna be.

Megan Ruble: I love the hand motion that goes with. With you finding the word.

Serita Fontenessi: I was like a yapper.

Sailor Franklin: She's just a yapper or a muppet. She is a kind of. Kind of what? Blanche Devereaux was in Golden Girls. Let's put it that way. That's what's coming to mind.

Serita Fontenessi: A harlot, a hussy, a floozy.

Sailor Franklin: Thank you. I can only think of a very derogative, not good word.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Manhunter.

Serita Fontenessi: First of all, we're reclaiming the derogatory words. Second of all, I was raised by your grandmother. I am very familiar. My Mom's one was with alternatives for loose.

Sailor Franklin: My mom. This is. This is the craziest one. Because when I was little, she would want to say, like, you're wearing something that's too revealing. And it wasn't, like, in a demeaning way. She just, like, you should probably put something on. She would say, like, you look like a fruit loop. It wasn't until I was older that.

Serita Fontenessi: I'm like, calling you gay. Like, no.

Sharon Johnson: She was just.

Sailor Franklin: That was her word for saying, like, you look a little bit like a hussy.

Megan Ruble: Oh. See, my grandmother didn't have a word for it. She just had a face. And, like, I knew if I got that face that she did not like.

Serita Fontenessi: What I was wearing on my wedding day. My grandmother told me I was showing too much cleavage. So, like, there. There was no winning. And to this day, she'll be like, you know, at your wedding dress with your boobs hanging out.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Your wedding dress was beautiful.

Serita Fontenessi: It was stunning, by the way.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Stunning, Timeless.

Serita Fontenessi: A sweetheart.

Susan Lambert Hatem: It was gorgeous. It was. You looked absolutely gorgeous, and it was perfect.

Serita Fontenessi: Thank you so much. But my grandma's got strong opinions.

Susan Lambert Hatem: I loved meeting your grandma. That was. I. I love her, but your dress was gorgeous.

Serita Fontenessi: Thank you. I make a lot of sense when you meet my grandma and my mom.

Sailor Franklin: So Rashomama was my favorite. And one last. One last observation before we move on. I think it's hilarious that Vicki Lawrence looks like the youngest person there, but she's just clearly wearing a wig. Because it's like I'm seeing Betty White as her daughter. And I'm like, not. I mean, Betty White looks fantastic, but you can. Like, the hair is only doing so much for her. Like, she looks so much younger than everybody else, and that was driving me crazy.

Megan Ruble: I forgot to say this earlier. Going in blind and then being like, wait, how are all these people related when she is clearly, like, very youthful looking? It took me a second, and it did take me till the second episode we watched, which was the Carol Burnett episode, to be like, oh, I bet this is a spinoff of a sketch. And therefore, that makes a lot of sense. Yeah. But definitely had the same reaction at first.

Serita Fontenessi: The wig was very, like, high school theater production. Right. When you've got a bunch of 15-yearolds doing, like, The Crucible or like, Death of a Salesman, like, what are guys, there's not enough makeup. And listen, we're all suspending our disbelief. We'll buy in. Okay.

Sailor Franklin: Every time I saw those socks she was wearing, it was just like, zoom. Like, that's the only thing I could pay attention to was those, like, little rolled up socks.

Serita Fontenessi: Okay. As someone who currently has on rolled up socks and slides, respectfully, Mama.

Sailor Franklin: Maybe it's like the nude illusion. Like, what I have. I, have no idea what those were. They looked like some sort of shapewear thing. Pantyhose. I have no earthly idea. Maybe it was a. I was.

Serita Fontenessi: I assumed they were just knee highs that had, like, fallen down.

Sharon Johnson: I thought they were support hose.

Susan Lambert Hatem: I thought they were support hose.

Serita Fontenessi: Yeah.

Sharon Johnson: Yeah.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Anyway, that is so funny. I love all of this. Oh, my God. Okay, now, is it feminist? Is it progressive?

Megan Ruble: I can go first because I think it's simple. I think it's feminist. I think it presents a number of different women who are empowered in different ways, who have made choices and are dealing with, struggles that, like, women deal with on a constant basis. I don't think it's progressive even a little bit, but, yeah, definitely think it's feminist.  

Serita Fontenessi: Yeah. I have a similar take again, right. We've got a woman lead who's a, full character in the context of the show. Right? And the men often are the butt of the joke, which I think that is actually progressive for the time. Right? Like, men got to always just be like, the cool, suave guys. And this is my dumb wife. Like, you know, so it was fun that they were idiots. So sorry to your comment section. You know, there's the usual, like, it's a very white show. Like, it is. You know, we've talked about how it's sort of this, like, sweet spot between the It's Always Sunny and Golden Girl spectrum, but still, like, characters are pretty, like, one dimensional, like with the occasional, like, really deep conversation, or moment. but for a character from already a woman-driven show, the Carol Burnett Show, to the character to be so enjoyed that it got its own show, I think is, like, pretty incredible. Like, I mentioned 30 Rock earlier, right? Like, the whole premise of Liz Lemon's character is she's like this modern producer for a Carol Burnett-esque show. The Girly Show is what it technically is. Before Tracy comes on and there's like, repeated jokes about, can Liz Lemon be a feminist? Like, is she pro women? Because, like, you know, we're. We're constantly being held to these other standards. So. Side note. But yeah, this, like, random character, like, could you imagine, like, like the Kristen Wiig, like, Target lady, like, she got some ads, but, like, getting her own show, like, that's. That's wild. Like, we'd be like that it. Like, what do you mean? So I think, like, in terms of saying, like, yes, women are funny, and yes, women can carry a whole show and a script. I think it's very progressive in that sense. Obviously, the content most did, not age well, and that's the reality of a lot of these shows. And yeah, certainly, certainly feminist in that regard of, again, like, the women are. They've got their own quick comebacks, they've got their own jokes. Like, they are not reliant on men giving them airtime.

Sailor Franklin: I believe it's feminist. I initially was struggling a little bit because in my mind I had the idea that, like, like, the men are frankly idiots in this show, but being mean to men does not equate to feminism. And so, I'm like, what was that, Serina?

Serita Fontenessi: You got me. You got me. I am a certified hater.

Sailor Franklin: I think it's progressive in that it is mean to men, but that doesn't, in fact, make it feminist. But what I do think is feminist is that you'd be shocked. But there's a large amount of female characters. It is a female character driven show and it shows how each of them are horrible in different ways. They're not all the same character. They're different women with different struggles, and they all handle it poorly in their own way, is how I describe it. I don't think it's very progressive either. There is absolutely no intersectionality. As far as the episodes that I have watched, it took me a while to think of it as a feminist piece because it's not the typical, like, empowering girl boss kind of thing. But it's like I said, it dares to show women as human creatures that can have flaws and can be very funny while doing it.

Serita Fontenessi: Women deserve to be bad too.

Megan Ruble: Yeah, we do.

Serita Fontenessi: Like, I screech about this a lot. If I yearn for black mediocrity, I'm sick of being excellent. I'm tired, I wanna lay down, I wanna go to bed. And in that same regard, right, Like, I wanna phone it in and people will be like, whoa, great job. Like, women walk of two therapy would say that. But, like, women are often held to this standard of. To your point, Sailor, Right. Of, like, for it to be like, yeah, women, like, she's got to be a single mom who works too hard and loves her kids and never stops. Like, she's got to be going above and beyond, like, beating the odds and, like, showing that, like, girls can do it too. And it's like, what if? And again, this is part of the fun of It's Always Sunny that we were saying, like, everybody's awful. Sometimes humans are just bad. And, like, that it is what it is, right? Like, even. And to your point, right, of, like, they're all awful in their own special way. And that's also fun because, like, wow, look at these multidimensional, like, not cookie cutter characters, but, like, I am. I say it all the time. I support women's rights and women's wrongs. Like, I am, obsessed. I am sick of it. If, dudes can have Entourage and Entourage movie and, like, thing after thing where, like, they're praised for being terrible, like, let's go, girls.

Megan Ruble: And I think if. If we're talking specifically about feminism within art, right? Like, we're telling stories. If you're only presenting one version of us or, like, one flavor of us, then you're not representing us. Like, yes, of course each story needs to serve its purpose. But, like, yeah, if we're only girl bossing and being awesome, that's not all of us. And it's not even mean on any given day.

Serita Fontenessi: Some days I'm a scumbag, and I want to see that reflected in the media.

Sailor Franklin: Exactly.

Serita Fontenessi: Yeah.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Yeah.

Sailor Franklin: Some days I have girl bossed too close to the sun, and I listen.

Serita Fontenessi: That's a lot of days.

Sailor Franklin: But, like, that's, like, kind of the.

Serita Fontenessi: Fun of, like, Broad City, right? Like, we. Like, if you're a fan of Broad City, like, you got to see these two women just figure their shit out, and it not always be perfect in a little bow and they not always be the best version of themselves, because who is? And again, we've all said that Mama’s Family lacks a lot of intersectionality and depth beyond a sitcom trope in a lot of ways. But I do think there is something to be said for a show that says we're gonna cast a bunch of women, they're all gonna be funny, and we're not gonna force them to be perfect people. I came on this episode, I would like to say, prepared to talk about not liking the show. I have no desire to watch Mama’s Family again after this, but turns out I love a soapbox to just hop right on to.

Sailor Franklin: So many bad women doing bad things. But I think we need to give our flowers to Carol Burnett who did it, who did it the best. Eunice is so much fun to watch be just marching around that studio making the. I literally. I have notes. Viewers at home. I have notes and I literally have written down Carol Burnett. Look where she, like, she, like, tilts her face up, but she's continuing to, like, stare down whoever she's looking at. And it's the funniest thing. And, ah, I kept. I kept noticing it, that I literally have it in my notes with a little doodle of Carol Burnett's face doing this. She's a menace. And it's. It's great.

Susan Lambert Hatem: That is so funny. So did you like it? And Serita just answered it.

Serita Fontenessi: Yeah, I mean, like I said, like, I have no desire to keep up with Mama’s Family after this. Like, I got what I needed out of it, but turns out I had a lot of strong feelings.

Sailor Franklin: I did enjoy it, but I don't know if I'd continue with it. And I'm gonna go back to my now patented, on sale soon sitcom spectrum of, you know, horrible people to full of heart. And I feel like Mama’s Family's in the middle. But I feel like if I want to do. If I want to watch bad people doing bad things, I'll go watch It's Always Sunny. And if I'm feeling in the mood for something a little more joyful, I'll go watch Golden Girls. Like, it's. It's good. I enjoyed my time. I feel like I might spend it somewhere else, though.

Megan Ruble: For your patent copy of the Sailor Franklin sitcom spectrum, you can Venmo $3,000 directly to their account.

Susan Lambert Hatem: The link will be in our description.

Megan Ruble: yeah, I think similarly to Sailor. Actually, I think I'm more inspired to go watch the Carol Burnett Show than I am to watch more Mama’s Family. I do kind of want to watch some of the extra credit episodes, just because I usually get around to that and just couldn't. But, yeah, it wasn't like. I think the only one I've been like, ugh, was Designing Women, and--

Susan Lambert Hatem: Sharon and I are still not over that.

Sharon Johnson: Broken hearts, broken hearts.

Megan Ruble: It's okay. I'm okay with dying that way.

Sharon Johnson: I think we have some homework to do to send them just a few of the just flat out hilarious Designing Women episodes that we should have included because that's. Yeah, because it's there. Trust me, it's there.

Sailor Franklin: Yeah.

Sharon Johnson: The one where Mary Jo is trying to decide whether or not she wants to get breast implants in particular. Oh, my God. And she has test boobs that she's wearing throughout the episode is pretty hilarious. Anyway. But we digress.

Megan Ruble: Yeah, but I think that's the only one that I've walked away being like, no. But, yeah. So, like, I would like to. But I'm more inspired to be like, yeah, it's time. I, like, actually watch. Watch as much of the Carol Burnett shows I can hunt down.

Susan Lambert Hatem: If you're a musical theater or comedy fiend, you should definitely check out the Carol Burnett Show and the special. She did a special with Julie Andrews in the ‘69. Something like that.

Megan Ruble: Like that variety might be what I've seen.

Susan Lambert Hatem: And, and then even later, she did a special. It was, Carol, Carl, Robin and Whoopi.

Megan Ruble: Whoa.

Susan Lambert Hatem: And it was a special with Carl Reiner, Carol Burnett, Robin Williams and Whoopi Goldberg. And there's a sketch where Whoopi plays her child from infant to all the way up, where they just do these vignettes. It's stunning. Excuse me. I cannot tell you how amazing they both are, but particularly Whoopi Goldberg is absolutely stunning.

Sharon Johnson: I've seen on one or more of the streaming channels, like free ones like Pluto or Tubi or somewhere else where they have a channel where they are just running the half hour versions of the Carol Burnett Show called Carol Burnett and Friends, which was sold in syndication. They cut down of an episode. So it may be worth it to just sort of wander into that. The Alan Alda episode, though, is on YouTube. We'll have that in the show notes as well for those of you listening.

Susan Lambert Hatem: And I also just want to point out in terms of Vicki Lawrence, and the wig, when she first. The very first sketch of the family, as it was known on the Carol Burnett Show, she was 25. That's how old I am when she's started playing that.

Megan Ruble: So she.

Susan Lambert Hatem: She was like 19 when she started on the Carol Burnett Show. And Vicki Lawrence still tours today, doing a two woman show with her and Mama. So half of it is just Vicki Lawrence talking about her life and doing her sketches and singing and stuff. And the other half is Mama. So there you go.

Megan Ruble: Please tell me that she still wears the wig. Please tell me that, like the wig over.

Susan Lambert Hatem: She looks exactly like the same. Yeah, it's the same house dress in the same wig.

Megan Ruble: It's great.

Susan Lambert Hatem: It's good stuff.

Sailor Franklin: Twenty-five is creamy. That's how old I am, which is. I don't know if I don't think I could dress up as an old lady and do what she does.

Susan Lambert Hatem: There's this surreal element to it all the way through where you're like, what? This is like just another world. We're just gonna completely extra sitcom sitcom. It Is it's like high school sitcom. It's Kids in the Hall sitcom. I love that. And the fact that she's the only one.

Sailor Franklin: Right.

Susan Lambert Hatem: It's not like, oh, they're all dressing up. They're all pretending to be a different age. You know, I don't know. There's something so bizarre about that show and so beloved. That show is very, very beloved. We have a lot of people that have found 80s TV Ladies because we started talking about Mama’s Family. And so, welcome to Mama’s Family fans.

Megan Ruble: Yay.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Because I think it was the time of sitcoms in the 80s where they were the comfort food of television, right? Very much so. And so people grew up on those sitcoms, and if you grew up on those sitcoms, whatever they are, they are meaningful to you. And I also think that mother-daughter relationship, as sort of as in the middle of awful, versus heartwarming, that it is very much resonated with the way a lot of mothers and daughters interacted with a really loving, antagonistic, judgmental worldview from, their mamas.

Sharon Johnson: I think it also helped as far as Vicki Lawrence playing Mama, since she started it on a show where various actors played all kinds of characters of all kinds of different ages. So people were kind of like, just kind of went with it. Okay, we know she's not older than Carol Burnett by any stretch of the imagination. She's playing her mother. All right, we'll go with that. So I think had it not been for that, I don't know that her walking into the show playing that character would have worked as well. But they had already built an audience. The audience was already ready for it, expecting it, was okay with it. And so off they went with the show. and of course, she did such a great job. She was just fantastic in that role. She really was.

Megan Ruble: Well, I do think it's worth thinking about too, because we're in an era of hyperrealism, which I love personally. But also it's worth thinking about what we lose by clinging to that. Right. Of being like, oh, well, she can't. She's only 25. And it's like, she did, and she did great. So, like, what else are we missing out on? Not letting creativity be really far out of the box. I think it's worth learning from that.

Susan Lambert Hatem: That is awesome. Oh, my God. Thank you, 90s TV Babies, for once again giving me context to a, 80s show that I would never occur to me. It would never occur to me to start talking about Always Sunny in Philadelphia with Mama's Family.

Sailor Franklin: Our official apology to the Mama’s Family crowd is going up on.

Serita Fontenessi: I think you need to apologize.

Megan Ruble: Apologize. We're being our worst selves, and we love it.

Sharon Johnson: And I will. You know, I know that you've. You've advised against it, but I have for some time been thinking I need to at least dip my toe into the Always Sunny and give it a shot. I make no promises about doing anything more than that, but I gotta do that. I gotta at least, you know, check it out.

Megan Ruble: Don't like it.

Sailor Franklin: Yeah, don't start with the first episode. Don't start with the, so.

Serita Fontenessi: Okay, like, the first episode is literally called the Gang Gets Racist. Like, every episode is the gang something. So, like, listen, we said from the jump, they are all terrible people doing terrible things. No one's redeemable.  

Sharon Johnson: Well, I-- You know, I feel like I should start with that one.

Megan Ruble: We should give you homework. We can send you a list of Always Sunny.

Sharon Johnson: Yes.

Megan Ruble: Yeah. Okay. I have faith. I'm obsessed with Charlie Day, and so, like, I have some favorites.

Serita Fontenessi: I mean, like, you're gonna have to watch the Day Man episode. Like, it is--  

Susan Lambert Hatem: Okay. I like this.

Serita Fontenessi: Episode of the show.

Sharon Johnson: Send me a list of, like, four or five episodes that you think, okay, watch these. Yes, I will do it. I promise I will watch it.

Susan Lambert Hatem: And then we will post them for 80s TV Ladies listeners. And then they can do the homework, too, if they want. This will be like reverse 90s TV Babies episode. I love it.

Sharon Johnson: And maybe we'll do a little Patreon episode with me discussing my thoughts.

Serita Fontenessi: Yeah, sign me up.

Susan Lambert Hatem: I'm there.

Sailor Franklin: I'm so excited.

Megan Ruble: Available for $3,000 donated to the Patreon.

Sailor Franklin: $3,000.

Serita Fontenessi: Megan doesn't get out of bed for anything less than 3k.

Susan Lambert Hatem: None of us should get out of bed for anything less than 3k. That's what I've decided. Thank you. You make me so very happy and, joyful. So this makes me joyful. In this moment. I got to forget the world for a minute. So very, very excited to see your happy faces and all your goodness and badness and real, woman-ness and real personness. I love it. Thank you.

Sharon Johnson: Yeah, this is. This is great. And all of your good news and good things coming and every. Everything in between. It's always such a pleasure to talk to you guys.

Susan Lambert Hatem: All right, and so next up, the next show that we're moving to, Would you like to know what our next show that we'll be covering is?

Serita Fontenessi: Sure.

Megan Ruble: Okay.

Susan Lambert Hatem: I can't wait. The Facts of Life. You take the good, you take the bad.

Serita Fontenessi: I quote the themes on the Facts of Life so often. I was always, like, you know, you take the good with the bad, and that's the facts of life.

Susan Lambert Hatem: It's been really fun to revisit that show too. So I can't wait to, bring it to you guys.

Sharon Johnson: And it was all new to me because I did not watch it when it aired and I haven't watched it since because, you know, as I've said before, shows about teenagers was really nothing that particularly interested me. So it's been fun. It's actually been a lot of fun watching it.

Susan Lambert Hatem: You guys have a brilliant week ahead of you. Please, and all my love to all your people.

Sharon Johnson: Thank you, guys.

Megan Ruble: Thank you. So good to see you guys.

Sailor Franklin: Thank you, guys. I had so much fun.

Sharon Johnson: Well done.

Susan Lambert Hatem: We'll have you back. Now we have four 90s TV Babies.

Sharon Johnson: Whoop, whoop. For today's Audiography, you can find the first three seasons of Mama’s Family free on Pluto TV and some episodes are also on YouTube. The entire series is available for sale on Amazon and Apple TV.

Susan Lambert Hatem: And you can find the 90s TV Babies episode assignments and links to where you can watch them in our description.

Sharon Johnson: Links for donations, volunteering and support around the Los Angeles fires will also be in our description.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Stay strong, Los Angeles.

Sharon Johnson: That's a wrap for this episode. Thank you all for listening and thank you for your feedback and comments.

Susan Lambert Hatem: We love hearing from you. Please send us messages at our website, 80sTVladies.com that's 80s-t-v-l-a-d-i-e-s-dot-com.

Sharon Johnson: And reach out on Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, @80sTVladies.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Hey, if you're liking the podcast and, if you want to support the podcast, go to patreon.com/80sTVladies. Hey, Sharon, you know what? Do you remember a song Skinamarink, or a show called the Elephant Show? I do.

Sharon Johnson: I do not.

Susan Lambert Hatem: I could sing Skinamarink for you.

Sharon Johnson: Please don't.  

Susan Lambert Hatem: Okay, all right. But our next episode takes a look at a Canadian musical children's show that became a hit in the United States, mostly because of the Skinamarink song.

Sharon Johnson: Tune in for this delightful episode with Sharon Hampson and her daughter Randy Hampson talking about being the musical sensation Sharon, Lois and Bram in the 1980s and how they translated into a children's television show.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Skinnamarink-a-dinky dink, Skinnamarink-a-Doo.

Sharon Johnson: As always, we hope 80s TV Ladies brings you joy and laughter and lots of fabulous new and old shows to watch. All of which will lead us forward toward being amazing ladies of the 21^st century.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Let's do it, ladies.

Amy Englehardt [Singing]: 80s TV Ladies, So sexy and so pretty. 80s TV Ladies, Steppin’ out into the city. 80s TV Ladies, often treated kind of sh-[wolf whistle]. Working hard for the money in a man’s world. 80s TV Ladies!

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