DON'T MISS OUT! SIGN UP FOR OUR MAILING LIST

EP. 310 - The Facts of Life, The Nanny, Carol Burnett & Mama’s Family | Who Has the Best Holiday Episode?

Melissa Roth: Weirding Way Media.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Random digital world. [weird metallic noise] Mmmmm, that was cool.  

Sharon Johnson: I just, just adjusted the microphone. It's never done that before.

Susan Lambert Hatem: It had something to say. Welcome to the party. Microphone stand.

Sharon Johnson: That's hilarious.

Susan Lambert Hatem: [cat noise] Wild cat over there. All right, shall we try this?

Sharon Johnson: Sure.

[Music] [Singing] Amy Englehardt: 80s TV Ladies, So sexy and so pretty. 80s TV Ladies, Steppin’ out into the city. 80s TV Ladies, often treated kind of sh-[wolf whistle]. Working hard for the money in a man’s world. 80s TV Ladies!

Melissa Roth: Sleigh bells are always nice.

Sharon Johnson: Okay, yeah. (quietly) Stop talking.

Melissa Roth: I want to play the washboard. Yeah, I'm ready, Kevin. Thank you.  

Welcome to 80s TV Ladies. Happy holiday bonus episode with your hosts, Sharon Johnson and Susan Lambert Hatem.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Hello, I'm Susan.

Sharon Johnson: And I'm Sharon. We wanted to wish you all happy holidays and hope that you and yours are enjoying this wonderful season.

Susan Lambert Hatem: I love Christmas lights. I love candles and Hanukkah candles and the music. We started our holiday playlist just after Thanksgiving. Sometimes we start it during Thanksgiving and the kids get very upset.

Sharon Johnson: Yeah, see, I'm with the kids. I think one holiday at a time, you know, at that moment, as soon as Thanksgiving is over, it's now Christmas time and let the jingle bells ring.

Susan Lambert Hatem: I love that.

Melissa Roth: Are you going to put out your Christmas playlist on Spotify for our Patreon members?

Susan Lambert Hatem: I hadn't thought of it, Melissa, but thank you. Now I feel like I'm going to have to. [Laughter]

Sharon Johnson: Wow.

Susan Lambert Hatem: No pressure there. Get it out quick.

Melissa Roth: It could be short.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Holiday's right around the corner. You know, we throw annual, Christmas Eve open house party and it starts at four and goes, forever for a long time. So we have a playlist that goes for hours. But Rich is responsible for that. Even though I have. Say  

Melissa Roth: You have editorial.  

Susan Lambert Hatem: I have editorial control. But so I gotta come up with like a 20 minute playlist so people aren't overwhelmed.

Melissa Roth: Yeah, just chunk out a piece.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Just chunk out a piece.

Sharon Johnson: Yeah.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Well, look for it on our socials.

Sharon Johnson: In your spare time.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Melissa gave me an assignment before the holidays came. What are your favorite part of the holidays?

Sharon Johnson: Like you, I love Christmas lights. I don't know what it is, but there's just something about the lights and it just kind of brings. So as you know, I sing in the Candlelight Choir at Disneyland every year. And when as part of it, we do this processional through the park, starting at the back of the park by Small World, make our way to Main Street and up on stage to do the show. And one of my favorite parts of the whole thing and we're singing Christmas carols as we go. One of my favorite parts of the whole thing is as we go around the Hub, where the statue of Mickey and Walt are, the lights on Main Street go down. And, for whatever reason, every single solitary year, it gets me, and I get a little verklempt and I need a moment as we're walking down. it just. There's just something about it. So that's one of my favorite moments of the holiday season.

Susan Lambert Hatem: I love that. Me too. I love that. But, you're heading out of town for the holiday?

Sharon Johnson: I am heading back to, see the family. in all the years I've lived out here in California, there've only been, I think, two years where I have not gone back for Christmas. since my siblings and I are all spread out, everybody comes back to Mom's house. And so it's the one time of year I could always be assured of seeing everyone in person. and happily, it looks like everybody's gonna be there this year.

Susan Lambert Hatem: That's fantastic. Melissa, are you traveling?

Susan Lambert Hatem: no, I'm going to your holiday party, as I do always. I'm like, I'm the gimme. I have been at every single one since Queensbury.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Kevin, are you heading out of town? Kevin is nodding yes. Going to Massachusetts, where it'll likely be.

Sharon Johnson: Very, very cold, comparatively speaking.

Susan Lambert Hatem: That, is nice.

Melissa Roth: Do they have. My favorite thing in Pennsylvania or Christmas time in the farmhouses. You would get a single candle burning in. Not the actual candle, but it'd

00:05:00

Melissa Roth: be one candle in each of the windows. I love that about the farmhouses.

Susan Lambert Hatem: That's nice. What a roller coaster of a year it's been.

Melissa Roth: Yeah.

Susan Lambert Hatem: I was looking back at some episodes and realizing how joyful we were at a few of them.

Sharon Johnson: Hopeful, hopeful, optimistic.

Susan Lambert Hatem: And that's what I'm trying to focus on during the holiday time and beyond.

Sharon Johnson: I'm getting there. Not there yet, but I'm getting there.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Hope and community and what will get us through. And joy and creativity and resistance.

Melissa Roth: That's so sweet of you. I didn't send you pictures of me doing the rocket launcher.

Susan Lambert Hatem: I'm sorry, what? You launched a rocket?

Melissa Roth: Well, simulation. You didn't see that? Oh, yeah.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Okay.

Sharon Johnson: That sounds awesome.

Melissa Roth: Yeah. And, I did a military simulator. It was fun.

Susan Lambert Hatem: yes.

Melissa Roth: So I'm. Yeah, that's how I'm gearing up. I'm, ready.

Susan Lambert Hatem: You're holding a real rocket launcher, but it's not.

Melissa Roth: It didn't have the ordnance in it.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Yes.

Melissa Roth: So it was lightweight.

Sharon Johnson: One would hope not, but. Well.

Melissa Roth: Right.

Susan Lambert Hatem: They didn't give you that much.

Sharon Johnson: No.

Melissa Roth: Although that would be really fun.

Sharon Johnson: I'd probably not.

Melissa Roth: In a building.

Susan Lambert Hatem: No.

Melissa Roth: Somewhere out in the middle of nowhere.

Sharon Johnson: Well, that.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Thanks, Kevin.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Listeners, do not use a rocket launcher in a building. Take it outside to the desert.

Sharon Johnson: Yes.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Like any responsible rocket launcher owner should do. Exactly.

Sharon Johnson: Oh, gosh.

Susan Lambert Hatem: This is not the episode you thought it would be.

Melissa Roth: You know, we live in a world that includes war, and I have a deep respect of our soldiers.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Yes.

Melissa Roth: Under fire.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Yeah.

Melissa Roth: Even from just doing a little simulation.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Yeah. It's, You, know, for Pearl Harbor, I got to go on the USS Stennis out at sea for three days.

Melissa Roth: Wow. Wow.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Yeah. And, it gave me immense respect. I had respect, but that was like, oh. Oh, this is what people do.

Melissa Roth: Yeah, yeah, exactly. You can only imagine it until you're there.

Sharon Johnson: Was that an aircraft carrier?

Susan Lambert Hatem: Yes.

Sharon Johnson: Did you do the Tailhook landing?

Susan Lambert Hatem: I did not do the Tailhook landing. We walked on in San Diego, but we did do the launch off.

Melissa Roth: Oh, excellent.

Sharon Johnson: My brother, the retired Navy captain, never got to do that to his regret.

Susan Lambert Hatem: All right, I'm trying to focus on hope.

Melissa Roth: All right. I joined the Army.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Melissa's joining the army. but inspired. What was this episode supposed to be about?

Sharon Johnson: Well, it's inspired by the 80s TV ladies holiday episodes from shows that we're gonna be talking about this season. The Facts of Life, Mama's Family and the Nanny.

Susan Lambert Hatem: I'm so grateful to the Patreon supporters that we have, so I wanna thank some of our top Patreon supporters. Michael and Anne, of course, and.

Sharon Johnson: Kate and Shari, like Starry and Megan.

Susan Lambert Hatem: And another Anne and Tara and Kate.

Sharon Johnson: Another Kate.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Do we really have two Kates?

Sharon Johnson: We have two Kates.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Thank you, Kates. Mrs. Isbecky. Which is a reference to Cagney and Lacey. I believe. So, Mrs. Isbecky. Thank you. I can't even say it. That must have been hard. God bless Tyne Daly and Sharon Glass.

Sharon Johnson: And David and Annie. Excuse me. We have Anne and Annie.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Anne and Anne and Annie. and Jeanette and Tanya. Thank you guys so, so, so much for supporting the show. And please keep it coming.  

I want to welcome some of our new. Like, we have also free patrons. You can be free for a while and see some things. Some of our new free patrons who are trying it out, like Karen, Brian, Dr. Glenn, Sandra, Patty and Kendra. And you too can try us for free.

Sharon Johnson: Yeah, there's a free trial, so if you think you've been thinking about it, check it out. And if you want to support us, it helps us immensely to produce this podcast. Advertising only pays a very small portion of the cost, so any support at any level would be really, really appreciated.

Susan Lambert Hatem: And part of what we're gonna do in 2025 is really concentrate on providing really cool stuff for that Patreon and for our patrons. So later in January, we will be Dr. some more video. and first off will be our Dorothy Lyman interview, the Zoom video from that.

00:10:00

Susan Lambert Hatem: So, stay tuned. We'll be doing a lot in 2025 with Patreon. Now it's time to get to the holiday episodes.

Sharon Johnson: Yes, as we mentioned before, we want to take a look at the holiday episodes of Mama's Family, Facts of Life, and the Nanny. there were three Facts of Life Christmas holiday episodes. There were two from Mama’s Family and three from The Nanny.

Susan Lambert Hatem: I think there were four Facts of Life.

Sharon Johnson: Were there four? Did I.

Susan Lambert Hatem: There were four.

Sharon Johnson: Right?

Susan Lambert Hatem: There's.

Sharon Johnson: Oh, my gosh, you're absolutely right.

Susan Lambert Hatem: There’s four Facts of Life, Two Mama's Family, and 3 Nanny.

Sharon Johnson: There you go.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Okay. And so we're gonna talk a little bit about those episodes briefly, and then we're gonna say our favorite from each show. I think that's the way we should go.

Sharon Johnson: That sounds good.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Okay. Do you want to start us off Facts of Life?

Sharon Johnson: Sure.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Did I throw you for a loop?

Sharon Johnson: Oh, my God. My brain just took a break.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Yeah, yeah, yeah, sure.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Yeah, that's what I want to do. That's right. Let's go.

Sharon Johnson: The first holiday episode from the Facts of Life was season five, episode 12. It's called The Christmas Show. Everyone was going off in different Christmases. Jo's plans go awry at the last minute, so she decides to stay with Mrs. Garrett. and, in the episode, Kim Fields and Charlotte Rae performed “Deck the Halls.”

Susan Lambert Hatem: I always love an episode that includes a musical number. You know, that. and I also. I'm a sucker for the holiday shows, particularly the Christmas shows. I always love when, a, TV series does that. I'm a little surprised that Facts of Life didn't do it earlier.

Sharon Johnson: I am, too. I actually am surprised that with all the shows that there weren't more. That there wasn't one, like, every year.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Yeah.

Sharon Johnson: for some reason, I think if I had to guess beforehand, that's what I would have thought had happened. But, apparently not. so the next one is season six, episode 13. It's called Christmas in the Big House. And this one has a lot of singing in it, actually, which is great. All of our main cast have a chance to get out and shine and show off their pipes, and it's really a lot of fun.

Susan Lambert Hatem: That's the one where Blair is organizing a holiday benefit show that she thinks is for, like, a boy's orphanage. And it turns out it's a prison.

Sharon Johnson: Right.

Susan Lambert Hatem: A men's prison. So they still have to do it, and Blair doesn't want to. Lisa Whelchel can sing. I mean, they all can. But that was sort of a nice little surprise. She sings a cappella, in that episode. and she was, of course, on the Mickey Mouse Club, so of course she can sing. She was raised by Disney!  

I enjoyed that one because it's got a lot of singing and a sweet little message. And then there's Christmas Baby, and Blair's mother is having a baby. It's a little bit surprised.

Sharon Johnson: Yeah, a bit of a surprise. And, her due date is coming soon.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Yes. And so, you get a Christmas Baby episode. Nothing wrong with that.

Sharon Johnson: Exactly.

Susan Lambert Hatem: And, Marj Dusay is Blair's mother, Monica. And, she's recurring in these later seasons. I think she plays her mother more than once. Yes.

Sharon Johnson: Cause we see her a couple of times, I believe, in that season, at least in the lead up to the delivery, because of the surprise that, her mom, you know, the surprise baby that her mom, it turns out, is carrying.

Susan Lambert Hatem: And then It's a Wonderful Christmas. That's season nine. Facts of Life ran a long time. Once they did a Christmas episode. They did one every year to the end. There's your lesson, sitcoms. Do a holiday episode doesn't have to be Christmas anymore. It was hard to find a Hanukkah episode in the 80s or Kwanzaa.

Sharon Johnson: Not unexpectedly, I suppose, but still,

Susan Lambert Hatem: And so It's a Wonderful Christmas. Well, of course, that's a, ah, take on It's a Wonderful Life.

Sharon Johnson: All the girls have their own plans. And Beverly Ann, who has now replaced Mrs. Garrett, and played by Cloris Leachman,  

Susan Lambert Hatem: who we love.  

Sharon Johnson: Yes, indeed. she feels underappreciated. So the episode is kind of a, as the title of the episode may indicate, kind of a take on It's a Wonderful Life and kind of giving her a sense of what might have happened if she were not there, since she's sort of feeling like maybe I just don't matter to these. In this situation to these girls. So, yeah, it's lovely.

Susan Lambert Hatem: I'm looking at which of those Christmas episodes was directed by Assad Kelada. Yes, he directed The Christmas Show.

Sharon Johnson: Oh, okay.

Susan Lambert Hatem: The first one. So that's fun.

Sharon Johnson: Yeah, exactly. That's great.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Yeah. And

00:15:00

Susan Lambert Hatem: so upcoming we might have a very special guest for those of you listening to this show.

Sharon Johnson: Exactly. Stay tuned.

Susan Lambert Hatem: anyway, so of those episodes of Facts of Life, Sharon, which is your favorite? Which is your top Facts of Life holiday show?

Sharon Johnson: I think for me it's Christmas in the Big House. I really enjoyed the musical numbers. the fact that they all had a chance to kind of play that way. and you know, I love a Christmas song. So.

Susan Lambert Hatem: you know what, Sharon? I actually agree with you. Even though I'm like, well, I can't pick the same one now.

Sharon Johnson: Sure you can.

Susan Lambert Hatem: But that little like Lisa Welchell moment was really nice because then Jo joins on the piano. Whether that's really Jo playing or not. But you know, but it's very like, it does work completely as a Christmas episode, and a Facts of Life episode. Although I'm going to also give that my second and bonus would be The Christmas Show because it kicks off the five holiday episodes to follow and clearly was successful, and also has Kim Fields and Charlotte Rae singing.  

So, Melissa, what was the first Hanukkah show that you remember seeing on tv?

Melissa Roth: Adam Sandler doing the Hanukkah song.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Yep, yep. I think that was been for all of us of that time.

Sharon Johnson: Would that have been in the 90s? Was it?

Susan Lambert Hatem: Yeah.

Melissa Roth: It was not 80s.

Susan Lambert Hatem: It was not. Yeah, it was Saturday Night Live. There was a couple like, Pee Wees.

Melissa Roth: Did, Pee Wee do a Hanukkah show?

Susan Lambert Hatem: Pee Wee did Hanukkah in the holiday show. There was a Hanukkah shout out in the holiday show. and that crazy insane thing. And then I think, in the 90s, the Rugrats did a Hanukkah show.  

Melissa Roth: Wow.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Yeah. But let's move on to Mama's Family.

Melissa Roth: Good segue.

Sharon Johnson: And now for something completely different.

Melissa Roth: I was just thinking too, is the 80s, is it like. Cause now everybody has a Christmas episode, even serious shows, you know, I can't tell you how many Christmas episodes I did. On episodic television. Do you think that was the start Of it in the 80s?

Susan Lambert Hatem: You know, I don't… I mean, because variety shows would do Christmas.

Melissa Roth: Oh, that's true stuff.

Sharon Johnson: I'd be surprised if we didn't see Christmas episodes always way back. but I Don't know for sure.

Susan Lambert Hatem: It's become a standard thing to do to do a Christmas episode or a holiday episode. I'm glad to see more diversity in that. Okay, we want to keep talking. We're going to take a short break and then we'll keep talking for a little bit longer. Cause we have all sorts of things. All right, we're take a quick break.  

Susan Lambert Hatem: Okay, we're back now. Mama's family.

Sharon Johnson: So the first Christmas episode they only did two over the course of the show was season three, episode 13, called Santa Mama. Bubba wanted to.

Susan Lambert Hatem: And Bubba is, Mama's nephew.

Sharon Johnson: Correct. He's Anis's son.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Eunice's son.

Sharon Johnson: Oh my gosh!

Susan Lambert Hatem: Anis's son is good too. Oh my God. Uranus. Uranus's son. So Eunice and Ed Higgins.

Sharon Johnson: Ed. I thought her.

Susan Lambert Hatem: So that's his last name.

Susan Lambert Hatem: So it's his last name. So Bubba is. Bubba Higgins.

Sharon Johnson: Bubba Higgins. Good Times.

Susan Lambert Hatem: That's a different show.

Susan Lambert Hatem: I was a big fan of Good Times.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Good Times.

Sharon Johnson: Oh, yeah.

Susan Lambert Hatem: yeah. So, Bubba's trying to raise money.

Sharon Johnson: Yeah. Because he wants to get a present for his girlfriend. and Mama's being kind of Scroogey.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Vinton has gotten a job to be, ah, Santa.

Sharon Johnson: Yeah.

Susan Lambert Hatem: So in the mall.

Sharon Johnson: Yeah. And at the last minute he loses his voice. And, they're actually at the mall. The little kids are waiting. the parents and the kids, are getting antsy. And since he's lost his voice, the folks at the mall are basically saying, sorry, Santa can't make it. And everybody's getting all upset. So Mama's like, all right, fine, I'll do it. So Mama puts on the suit and is Santa to a parade of kids.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Yes.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Ah.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Even though she declared at the top of the show that she was canceling Christmas this year because the star that her husband, who passed away made for the tree is missing. And so she's like, there's. I'm. I. I'm already miserable. And this made it worse. But then she has to be a nice enough Santa. and, and she's, you know, she does.

Sharon Johnson: She's not taking any, anything, any crap off the kids. But still, she's, she does a good job with, with the kids. She

00:20:00

Sharon Johnson: soften her up a little bit.

Susan Lambert Hatem: A little softy past the crunchy exterior. And, and so this is very nice for that. And it's fun to see Vicki Lawrence as Mama playing Santa Claus because it's like there's a Dress up upon a. Dress up in that. And, So, I. I thought that was actually pretty fun. And, yeah. And then, the other mama's family Christmas episode is season six, episode 14, Mama Gets Goosed, which, you know, you gotta watch that one. and, Mama's, talking about her, childhood and the hardscrabble life of her childhood because she's expecting a gift from one of her relatives. And the gift arrives, and it's a goose.

Sharon Johnson: Alive, real live goose that's intended to be served at dinner on Christmas Day.

Susan Lambert Hatem: And the rest of the family is appalled, but Mama's thrilled and determined to, When, the time comes, she's gonna fatten up that goose, and, she's gonna kill the goose for Christmas dinner. Because that's what you do.

Sharon Johnson: That's what happens, whether it be a goose or a turkey or.

Susan Lambert Hatem: And spoiler alert, it turns out everybody leaves the house when it's time to do the deed, and she goes out to chop up the goose and ends up not. And so she makes a veg. What I liked is she makes a vegetarian fake goose.

Susan Lambert Hatem: The first tofurkey.

Susan Lambert Hatem: The first tofurkey.

Sharon Johnson: Well, and. But they don't use the V word. She just talks about how she shaped the other side dishes into a turkey, into a goose.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Like, into a goose. And then the actual goose joins them at the dinner table and gets some corn feed. so it's a lovely game.

Sharon Johnson: Yeah, absolutely. so which one is your favorite?

Susan Lambert Hatem: I gotta say, it's Mama Gets Goosed just because of the scene with Vicki Lawrence as Mama talking to the goose when she's going like, okay, just. Just put your head down here so she can chop off his head. And he's not. I, I'm. I'm a sucker for that.

Sharon Johnson: I. I thought. I like Santa Mama.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Okay.

Sharon Johnson: Of the two, that was my favorite. I really liked how they kind of threaded the needle of taking Mama Scrooge and turning her into really a pretty darn good store. Ah,

Santa. she did a. She did a. She did a really nice job and. And really, tried to make sure that the kids had a good experience, despite some of the things that, like, one kid stuck a. A, sucker. That.

Susan Lambert Hatem: That.

Sharon Johnson: In her beard. In her fake beard.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Yeah, the.

Sharon Johnson: The.

Susan Lambert Hatem: The gag of doing the photo flashing, and catching, poor Mama in uncomfortable shots, during the course of trying to service the kids and their Santa love was, pretty fun. but I'm gonna stick with, Mama Gets Goosed because You know, there's a live goose in the episode. It seems to be pretty happy. Although they drag it in in the first scene. They literally like kind of drag it through the door. You're like, okay, all right. I don't think PETA was on that side. Even though they don't say vegetarian, it's very clear that they're going to eat vegetable side dishes for, fake goose.

Sharon Johnson: Yeah, there's no meat on the table for Christmas dinner.

Susan Lambert Hatem: There's no meat on the table for Christmas dinner. And so I'm like, okay, all right. as a part time vegetarian, I'm like that.

Sharon Johnson: I do wonder what eventually happened to Luther the Goose.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Luther the Goose.

Sharon Johnson: I don't know. I don't know that he was ever mentioned again.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Well, no, but they talk about Luther. They, say something about we're going to keep Luther forever now. And mom is like, no, no, no, we're going to find a home for him or something at the very end.  

So, yeah, I think maybe Luther the Goose went to hang out with the chicken. Found in Queens by Eric Brown of Mama's Family. I wonder if the chicken story helped them make that inspired. Even though Eric wasn't even in the show at that point. Oh, that's funny. Okay. Anyway, so, yeah, I'm gonna say, Mama gets Goosed is my favorite. Although there is a mention of a New York real estate guy in that episode. So I would. If you. If you don't want to hear that.

Sharon Johnson: It's just a mention.

Susan Lambert Hatem: It is just a mention and it goes by quickly. But I was, I. It did catch my notice about how ridiculous people were to just promote, New York mobster real estate guys.

00:25:00

Susan Lambert Hatem: Even in the 80s. I guess that's where it started. All right.

Sharon Johnson: Annd the Nanny.

Susan Lambert Hatem: And, you know, we're not really covering the Nanny during this season because it's not an 80s show. But we did talk a lot about it with Dorothy Lyman and, it's such a significant ladies show and ladies driven show both in front of and behind the camera that I thought it would be fun to see what their holiday episodes were. and it was.

Sharon Johnson: So the first one is season one, episode eight. It's called Christmas Episode. There seems to be a lot of that in the show's episode.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Okay. It's Christmas Episode. it's interesting, the titles from the 80s. Yeah, the TV title, the episode titles, they're not as thought out as they are now because people didn't really even know what they were exactly. You had no way to really. It wasn't often that you would even know what the name of that title was. They were just titled In House for, the writers and the producers. And every once in a while you heard about it, but it's not like it comes up in every episode. And now we are much more aware of often the title of episodes. so I think that's pretty interesting that most of the time they were pretty perfunctory.

Sharon Johnson: Right. And shows have gotten really creative about the show titles. I mean, Friends, notoriously. The one with the one where I, think one of my favorites, though, was for the Good Wife. Season one episodes had one-word titles, season two, two word titles, season three, et cetera, up to season four.

Susan Lambert Hatem: That's fun.

Sharon Johnson: And then when they went to season five, they went backwards. Season five was three, Season six was two. Season seven, where they ended it was one. I thought that was really elegant that they did it that way.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Yeah, totally.

Sharon Johnson: Anyway, Christmas episode of the Nanny, season one, episode eight, Max is not gonna be home for Christmas again because he's producing a benefit at the Kennedy center, and the kids aren't particularly. They're resigned to it, but they're not particularly happy about it. and, Fran is expecting a Christmas bonus because, she's been told that he's very generous at the holidays. But instead, Max gets her a one of a kind vase that she pawns it so she can the kids presents, and then feels bad about pawning it. So she trades her grandmother's watch for the vase. So now she has the vase back, but she doesn't have her grandmother's watch. And et cetera, et cetera. And so hilarity ensues, with all of this back and forth. So that's their first. But they did a Christmas episode, season one.

Susan Lambert Hatem: I know, I like that. And again, they also didn't shy away from the fact that she's, incredibly Jewish in the show.

Susan Lambert Hatem: So she talks.

Susan Lambert Hatem: At least they talk about Hanukkah, and she talk, oh, this is m. My first Christmas. and the differences. So I think that one of the things that I think, was really cool about the Nanny was how front and center her Jewishness was. and that it was a point of comedy, but it was also a point of pride for the character. so I think that is nice.

Sharon Johnson: It was very much part of her character and probably was able. They were able to do that because she was an executive producer, so she was able to make that happen.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Yeah, but it's funny because she ends up going to confessional.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Oh, dear. Is she allowed?

Susan Lambert Hatem: She shows up and literally, she asks that in the thing. It's like, can anybody go to confessional? and then, of course, Mr. Sheffield. Mr. Sheffield comes and finds her in the confessional. So everybody has to break into the. Yes, in comedy, anything is allowed.

Susan Lambert Hatem: You never know.

Susan Lambert Hatem: No, it's true. I. I think that. Well, anybody can go to confessional.

Sharon Johnson: As a very lapsed Catholic, I'm pretty sure they. They don't ask for credentials. When you go into the confession, you.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Don'T start doing confessional until you have been confirmed. at 13.

Susan Lambert Hatem: So after my Bat mitzvah.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Yes. But you can't. I mean, like, it's not like. I'm not sure they would turn you away.

Susan Lambert Hatem: I was a Hebrew school dropout and.

Sharon Johnson: Anyway, no, I. I can't imagine the priest would be happy to talk to you, I'm sure. But there's nothing he can quote, unquote, do because you're not guarded. Well, yeah, because what happens after the confession is you get prayers and such and you don't believe that or you're not part of that faith. So, you know, it's doesn't matter. Yeah, don't.

Susan Lambert Hatem: I don't go and do the Hail Marys.

Sharon Johnson: Exactly.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Okay.

Sharon Johnson: But the. The chat. I think the chat would be fine.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Yeah.

Sharon Johnson: Yeah. Having the chat with the priest would be fine.

Susan Lambert Hatem: The interesting thing about the confessional, if they.

00:30:00

Susan Lambert Hatem: If they had used it properly, it was therapy, right? Like, it was a little bit of therapy. Yes, it is. Early days of therapy. Right. It's like, it's private what stays here. It's, you know, you're safe to say anything here and confess anything, and then I will give you some absolution. I will give you some solution for how you can process that.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Yeah.

Sharon Johnson: Not my experience of the whole confessional thing. It was pretty much a. These are my sins. Do these Hail Marys. See you next time.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Yeah, I was terrified. Cause I felt like I had, Because when I. You have to make your first confession when you're 13 and doing your first, you know, terrible. And I didn't have anything. It was more like a. Like, what do they want from me? I yelled at my mom, like, yeah.

Susan Lambert Hatem: That would be a sin.

Sharon Johnson: Yeah. It all seemed kind of.

Susan Lambert Hatem: But it was like your mother.

Susan Lambert Hatem: I'm going. Here's the thing. Like. So my parents were divorced. I was raised in single mom household. So the idea of telling a guy who seemed like he was a 60 year old guy who had never been married, never in theory had sex, never done anything bad because that was the perception of priests. Right.

Sharon Johnson: Yeah.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Oh, I'm gonna. You don't know me. What good is you to me? Oh, God. This one didn't work out.

Sharon Johnson: It was this very mysterious thing. there was no. It was Never felt grounded in reality.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Yeah.

Sharon Johnson: In my. To me it was just sort of.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Does it. It happens like in the movies where you're behind a slatted thing. Right. You don't have to.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Well, and weirdly, I think the first one we had to do. In person. And I didn't like that.

Sharon Johnson: I never had to do that. Yeah. I never had to do it in person.  

Susan Lambert Hatem: I had to do it in person the first time because it was part of these teachings and stuff. But again, all I had was I, you know, I yelled at my sister and

Melissa Roth: it's a good one, but, you know.

Sharon Johnson: Ah, but you said, I'm always wrong about these things. But honestly, I don't. If I had had to guess, I would have said I started confession sometime in grade school, but I don't know. I mean, I was in the Japanese part of it.

I was in the military.

Sharon Johnson: I was confirmed at 13. But I don't. I mean, I've been going to Catholic school. Yeah, I went to a Catholic school in kindergarten, first grade even.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Yeah.

Sharon Johnson: so we've been going to mass every Sunday. I honestly don't remember when I made my. When I. How old I was.

Susan Lambert Hatem: It was, it was in my memory. And our church and, you know, Catholic, you know, can be its own… I was Southern Catholic. I don't know what that means, but that's what I was raised. and, it was part of the teaching because it was a little modeled on, on, you know, Jewish faith in that you did some, you had to do some homework to go through the process of, of, Your first communion.

Melissa Roth: Yes.

Susan Lambert Hatem: And, I mean your first,

Sharon Johnson: Your confirmation.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Your confirmation into the faith, which is.

Melissa Roth: The same as the, first reading from the Torah. Yeah.

Sharon Johnson: Which I never put together until just now that it's essentially the same thing.

Melissa Roth: Yeah.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Oh, yeah. I mean, all, you know, all the Christian religions stole from the first religion.

Melissa Roth: Well, you know, everybody, everybody follows the first five.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Yeah.

Melissa Roth: And then, then certain questions and then branches off. We're all there in the first five.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Yeah, that's true. Anyway, so, But yeah, so I, I thought that that was kind of fun that the, you know, that she ends up, you know, it's Just. It's funny. Yeah, the nanny gets away with a lot because, weirdly, it is funny. It still holds up. It's still funny.

Sharon Johnson: And interestingly enough, most Christmas episodes follow a particular set of situations having to do with getting presents, giving presents, seeing family, not seeing family. It's the variation of that. So in my mind, this is a very standard kind of Christmas episode. It's the details that are different, but they don't usually go too far afield in terms of what the Christmas episode is really kind of going to be about. And that's okay, as long as it's fun. As long as it's good.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Well, speaking of that, the next episode they do is Season 3, Episode 14, Oy to the World. Now, there's a lot of Oy titles in this season, and the rest of this season was directed by Dorothy Lyman, except for this one, because it was special, because it's an animated special. And I thought that was cool that before Community or other

00:35:00

Susan Lambert Hatem: sort of shows did that, they did an animated Christmas special. and I was like, oh, well, that's very, very clever. I kind of wish the episode had been better.

Sharon Johnson: I agree. I don't even remember what it was about. I'll be perfectly honest with you.

Susan Lambert Hatem: It's very confusing. Anyway, she falls down, hits her head in the snow. Like, there's a big snowstorm. She falls down and it just stays in animation. And it's. On one hand, you're like, that's the opening of the show is the animated opening. And so you're like, okay, that's very clever. This is cool. But this one is very cray cray.  

It's just. There's a dog. Was there a dog in the show? Like, I didn't remember there being a dog in the show. And there's suddenly a dog, and the dog is talking, and then she's with the son. And then we get into, And Niles. the butler is a character, other characters, and he gets to sing, which is fun. But the story in the. In the. Within that episode is incomprehensible at best. It's like, Yeah, so I was a little underwhelmed. I was very excited when I saw that it was animated. It's also hard to find because it's. It was not in the regular listing, and so we had to go to a different platform to watch it. But, yeah, so it was a. It was a very. A very,

Melissa Roth: A very weird Christmas special.

Susan Lambert Hatem: It was a very weird Christmas special.

Sharon Johnson: It was a big swing that unfortunately didn't hit the swish, man.

Susan Lambert Hatem: I'm gonna call that a swish. And it's rare. I give a lot. But that one was tough.

Sharon Johnson: The very first, at least in our little grouping of Christmas episodes. Season six, episode ten of the Nanny. The episode is actually called The Hanukkah Story.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Love that.

Sharon Johnson: Yeah. So by the time season six rolls around, Fran and Max are now married and she is pregnant with their first child. So Hanukkah's coming, and Hanukkah is very important to her. And once again, she's surprised to find that he's gonna go off and work, for Hanukkah the first night of Hanukkah. And he's like, oh, there's other nights. What difference does it make? Clearly, I haven't been talking about this. so that's what the episode is about. About him coming to the realization of what this means to her and how important this is to her. And, yeah, it's a lovely episode. I think.

Susan Lambert Hatem: It is a lovely episode. And what it does do is give them an opportunity to explain Hanukkah. And that does do that, I think, quite nicely. It's funny, but because it's her going, no, this is important because blank. by him going, oh, I. Another night, she gets to explain the importance of the first night of Hanukkah and the story of Hanukkah and all that stuff. So it actually sort of integrates that, I think, pretty nicely. I love that Ray Charles has been a recurring character. He's dating her grandmother.

Melissa Roth: Oh, that's fantastic.

Susan Lambert Hatem: So it's got all of her family in there. So it is about family and the kids are funny.

Melissa Roth: There aren't too many Hanukkah songs. Someone asked me about that the other day. Yes, I knew one. It's the Dreidel song that' and when it's dry and ready, oh, Draejo, I will play that's it for.

Susan Lambert Hatem: And then Adam Sandler. But it's very charming. And also what I didn't realize until starting to look at the Nanny again when Dorothy Lyman was on was that Sylvia Fine, her mother is played by Reneé Taylor, who is an incredible actress. Has incredible, like, done a ton, A ton, A ton of stuff. But I didn't know was also a writer and was nominated for an Academy Award for co writing the screenplay for the film Lovers and Other Strangers, based on the play she co wrote, Lovers and Other Strangers, which I know because in the 70s, I saw my dad perform it on stage.

Sharon Johnson: Really?

Susan Lambert Hatem: Yep.

Sharon Johnson: And I Did not know that. I knew of Reneé Taylor, but I did not know of that either. That's really amazing.

Susan Lambert Hatem: So I weirdly know that play, which is basically a, sex comedy drama from the 70s, so every nine year old should be in that audience. Now you're understanding what formative years I had. So, of the Nanny Christmas holiday episodes, which is your favorite?

Sharon Johnson: You know, it's definitely not the animated one.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Oy, not the animated one.

Sharon Johnson: Yes, correct. I have been going back

00:40:00

Sharon Johnson: and forth between the Christmas episode, from season one and the Hanukkah story, and I think it's a tie. Oh, I think it's just a tie for me. They both have so many things going for them. but on the other hand, I feel like I certainly can't vote against something with Ray Charles and Reneé Taylor in it. So, yeah, I gotta give it a tie.

Susan Lambert Hatem: That is so interesting. Okay. And again, you're not wrong. A. I think they're bold coming out of the gate season one with a Christmas episode.

Sharon Johnson: Hm.

Susan Lambert Hatem: And they face the Hanukkah issue of it all. So I. Lots of points there. As a Nanny episode. It is a much better episode of the Nanny because the first one, the first, the first season, the season one, episode eight, the show is sort of, you know, has hit its stride.

Sharon Johnson: It's a very good but straightforward Nanny episode.

Susan Lambert Hatem: But I'm a television. The Hanukkah story is my favorite, mostly because it's the Hanukkah and I actually think it's got enough sort of, oh, my God, tuck of the heartstrings. And it still had some good laughs. But I'm gonna say the Hanukkah story because it was one of the few, and I have no doubt she had to fight hard to get to be called the Hanukkah story.

Melissa Roth: oh Yeah.

Sharon Johnson: I'd like to think that by then they were like, yeah, whatever, do whatever you want.

Susan Lambert Hatem: I would too. I would too. But she had to wait six seasons for it.

Sharon Johnson: About my choice, you are also not wrong. So, yeah, there is no wrong answer.

Susan Lambert Hatem: There is no wrong answer. Before we get to the winners, I'm gonna throw in a couple of weird, crazy bonus.

Sharon Johnson: Okay.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Bonus holiday moments from the 60s and 70s, because, you know, that wasn't on our list. And so I like to keep you. I like to keep you on your surprise. You. no. In the upcoming year. in our next episode, we're going to take a look at the origin story of Mama's Family, starting with a look at the legendary Carol Burnett Show. So here are a couple of Carol Burnett holiday episodes and snippets that while not all full holidays, these episodes were not full holiday shows. both of them have standout holiday moments in them. And that was the interesting thing about the Carol Burnett Show. It was a variety show, but within the show that aired around Christmas, they would do a lot of holiday sketches and songs.

Sharon Johnson: Yeah, there'd be holiday elements that are part of the show, but it wasn't the entirety of the show.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Right. And then they'd have, a skit that had nothing to do with the holidays. It was pretty interesting to kind of revisit that. Cause we've started two. Because we're gonna talk about Carol Burnett and the origin of Mama's Family. And the interesting thing about the. Speaking of titles, the titles of these shows were the guest stars. Season two, episode 12, which aired December 16, 1968.  

Gonna go back not the 80s, was entitled Eileen Farrell, Bob Hope and Marilyn Horne. And it is a. It's sort of. It's a Christmas special-esque. Eileen Farrell and Marilyn Horne, very famous singers. And opera singers. And that was the great thing about the Carol Burnett Show. It brought out incredible talent every week.

Sharon Johnson: But that was actually the fact that they had not one, but two opera singers on a network show was what was done back then. if you think back to the most infamous variety show of television history, I think the Ed Sullivan show, he had all kinds of performers, including, operatic singers. Which was still something that was pretty popular back then. Because I think a lot of people listened to. Would like listen to the Met on the radio. which people don't really do. I mean, it kind of lost its luster through the 60s. And certainly by the 70s, I think it had kind of diminished. But still in 1968, when this episode aired, opera was still very much in the forefront for a significant segment of the audience that was watching television. So, that was really interesting to see. I'd kind of forgotten about that.

Susan Lambert Hatem: The whole episode is a wonderful version of her show. Cause it's got the opera singers coming out and singing. It's got a great, sketch. It's got a knockout version of Big Spender

00:45:00

Susan Lambert Hatem: with the three of them, Carol Burnett, Eileen Farrell and Marilyn Horne singing Big Spender, which is super fun. And they look great. Cause in their Bob, Bob Mackie was the costumer. So it's just. It's an element of elegance that you just don't see on television anymore.

Sharon Johnson: And absolutely amazing production value. Yes, there is a Dance number when I believe it's when Eileen Farrell sings. She's the first one that sings. And there's six male and six female dancers who do this number. And formal clothing. The men are in tuxes, their women are in ball gowns. I mean, it's. You never see that kind of stuff. I mean, that kind of production value anymore. And this was every week on that show.

Susan Lambert Hatem: I know, I thought the skit was unexpectedly great. I mean, they're all good, but I was very like, so the skit is, Lyle Wagner, is playing a movie star. And then this kind of nerdy, writer is coming to interview him.

Sharon Johnson: Played by Carol Burnett. She's the writer.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Carol Burnett is the nerdy writer. And she's completely unfazed until, the Lyle Wagner comes out in his fancy suit and turns on the smolder. And so every time he kind of looks at her or talks to her, she drops to the ground and faints. And it's, I mean, such a great physical comedian. So it's fantastic. The timing. talk about the production value of that sketch, right? It feels like she's in a rich house, right?  

They are moving all over that room to do every physical gag they can so that she can drop to the floor and to the couch and to the wall in all different ways. She crawls across the floor at one point and cracks up. Love. So it gets the little, the little breakup moment. And then it has a great topper which is, you know, so she, you know, finishes the interview and they escort her out.  

And then the butler, you know, comes over to help him and he goes behind the screen and he's like, oh, thank God, I can relax now. And he takes off his cummerbund and his suit and all this kind of stuff and then he walks out and it's Bob Hope and he looks like Bob Hope when he's not being the movie star. Always funny. And Bob Hope was always good at playing, you know, joking on himself and his looks. And I just thought that sketch was better than I thought it was gonna be in the holiday special and had nothing to do with the holiday. Yeah, that was sort of the only thing. And then they have a beautiful medley at the end of singing Christmas songs while they scroll on all the donations they're giving to various charities, throughout, both locally and nationally.

Sharon Johnson: Yeah, that was amazing. Yeah, Pretty great.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Always love a Christmas medley.

Sharon Johnson: And then the other one is, that is with Alan Alda, as the guest that Originally aired on 12-21-1974, Season 8, Episode 13.

Susan Lambert Hatem: At the height of his fame.

Sharon Johnson: Oh, yes, absolutely. And of course, it was also on CBS interestingly enough, there's backtracking a little bit. There's a moment, in the previous episode, we talked about where, Carol Burnett and Bob Hope were talking, and she mentioned something about his upcoming special on NBC. And then she goes, whoops. Not supposed to mention the other channel, which I thought was kind of cute, which nobody cares about anymore, but it was very much a thing.  

The first skit. The first thing in the show was a Christmas thing. They're both working in, like a Macy's. Yeah. Department store. And they sing a duet. And I either had forgotten or just simply didn't know that Alan Alda has a good voice.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Yes.

Sharon Johnson: Oh, my gosh. Oh, my gosh. He was great.

Susan Lambert Hatem: “Nobody does it like me,” which is, I was like, where is that song from? And, so I had to look it up. It's from Seesaw, a 1973 American musical, with, music by Cy Coleman and lyrics by Dorothy Fields. One of the few of the time, female, musical theater writers. Alan Alda, Carol Burnett. They did, Four Seasons (the movie) together.

Sharon Johnson: Yes, that's right.

Susan Lambert Hatem: And turns out they were childhood friends. They known each other since they were very young.  

Sharon Johnson: Oh, I didn't know that.  

Susan Lambert Hatem: In their preteen. Teenage preteen. And so there have been friends for a long, long time. So there's a lot of chemistry between the two of them in this sketch. Again, the production value of it, the choreography of it, it's just beautiful. And it's just, again, this great, amazing sketch. The rest of the show,

00:50:00

Susan Lambert Hatem: I couldn't find the whole show, but I found snippets. And so the other thing that's in that show is a. Is a, Is a family. The family Christmas sketch with, Alan Alda, playing the sort of. The brother we've not seen. So is Eunice's brother.

Sharon Johnson: Eunice's brother, who's been living in New York, they think. Not able to keep a job.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Yeah. Because he's a freelance graphic designer.

Sharon Johnson: And they don't understand what freelance is.

Susan Lambert Hatem: So they just think he keeps getting fired. And, also very, very funny. And so it's very funny. The family sketch. very funny. Eunice and Vicki Lawrence comes in, and so it's kind of a neat segue into our mama's family episodes. but.  

So those were my two. I think there were other times where they did a holiday thing or Two. But I think these were the two ones where the most holiday stuff was in. Because, you know, in the family sketch, he's home for the. He's come to surprise Mama for the holidays.

Sharon Johnson: Right.

Susan Lambert Hatem: And things go awry, as they usually do.

Sharon Johnson: Poor Eunice.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Poor everybody. but Alan Alda's very funny in that sketch. as we know he can be. But the surprise of the other. that episode of the we got to saw see, was him singing that duet with her that was really incredibly charming.  

Okay, so of these two, sort of. And again, one's not a full episode because I couldn't find it. I'm going to keep looking. But, what was your favorite?  

Sharon Johnson: Gosh, Carol Burnett. The two Christmas specials, as it were. It's a hard one. Yeah. I'm going with Alan Alda.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Okay. Yeah. You can't go wrong with Alan Alda in 1974, I gotta tell you.

Sharon Johnson: Well, first of all, that episode had more Christmas.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Yes.

Sharon Johnson: Than the other one. it had Alan Alda singing, which was, a lovely revelation. and it had a pretty good, Eunice, and Mama sketch.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Yes.

Sharon Johnson: Some of them could get a little rough.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Yes.

Sharon Johnson: Rough in terms of, dramatic, serious, as opposed to funny.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Yes.

Sharon Johnson: This one, I thought walked a nice balance between the two. and he was. He was great in that as well. So I think I have to go with Alan Alda. What about you?

Susan Lambert Hatem: you know, that is so funny, because I think until you started. Until you started making your argument, I was totally Eileen Farrell, Bob Hope, Marilyn Horne, mostly because of the ending. but I think you're right. As a Christmas episode, it's gotta be the Alan Alda, because it's more Christmas. And it is kind of the Carol Burnett show firing on its perfect cylinders. Right.  

Like, of a special guest doing something you don't expect from them. And it feels the most like the precursor to Saturday Night Live. Right. Like, in some ways, because it's like, oh, suddenly this guest is gonna come on and do something we don't expect. Like, you know, if Eileen Farrell had come on and done a Mama's Family sketch, that would have been interesting. She came on and sang opera, which was cool.

Sharon Johnson: Right. And. Which I think was a gift of the times. Right.

Susan Lambert Hatem: For people that wouldn't go to opera or couldn't go to opera, to be able to see an opera singer sing, that was part of the gift of the show. so. But I think I gotta go with Alan. Aldous season. So season eight, episode 13, aired, 12-21-1974, right there in the 70s. I probably watched it, but didn't really know who Alan Alda was because I was too young to know to watch MASH yet.

Sharon Johnson: Oh, I was watching MASH. You know, it's funny, I've been thinking I may have missed that one because, we might have. But we came back. Yeah, we came back from Japan in 74. So by December you would have been. We would have been in the States and TV junkie that I am, I'm sure I would have watched it.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Yeah. Ah, I definitely watched the Carol Burnett Show.

Sharon Johnson: Oh, yeah. oh my God. The whole Sunday night lineup, Saturday night lineup on CBS was you just couldn't talk about Must see tv. My goodness. so, yeah, I definitely would have watched it. I love the Carol Burnett Show.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Let me go back here. We've got to go all the way back to Facts of Life. Our top Christmas show of Facts of Life was Christmas in the Big House. We agree. Ding ding. Our top mama's, family. We're split. Mama's family. And mama gets goosed. Sharon's a Mama's, M. Sharon's a Santa mama and Susan's a Mama gets goosed. The Nanny episode. Sharon is

00:55:00

Susan Lambert Hatem: Christmas episode, season one, Episode eight.

Sharon Johnson: No, for the Nanny, I had a tie.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Oh, you had a tie. You tied them.

Sharon Johnson: Christmas episode of Hanukkah's story, I couldn't choose.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Okay. And then I went with Hanukkah's story, right? Yeah. Okay. That's what it was. All right. I knew we had something there. All right, so there you go. And then of the bonus of the Carol Burnett. Go check out the Alan Alda episode or snippets of episodes.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Which brings us to our audiography for the day. The links to many of these episodes and the clips we talked about will be in our description. So going into the holidays, I've also put some books on order.  

Sharon for audiography, but also for myself. one is a magazine article, how to Survive the Broligarchy by Carol Cadwalader. And she's a great writer. and this is a very, interesting article inspired by the next book I'm gonna recommend, which is On Tyranny by Timothy Snyder. written first in the aftermath of 2016, but he's got several revisions to it. but it's some very interesting, reading that I find helpful.  

And the Fire Next Time by James Baldwin, which I think I read back in college. But, want to revisit And Orwell's Roses by Rebecca Solnit.

Sharon Johnson: Excellent.

Susan Lambert Hatem: So some light reading for the holidays?

Sharon Johnson: Well, maybe some.

Susan Lambert Hatem: I'm gonna get them for the holidays.

Sharon Johnson: Maybe some airplane reading if you're traveling. Yeah, you know, that'd be a good time maybe to, you know, open up a book.

Susan Lambert Hatem: I just thought that maybe, you know, there you go. Get ready. Go train with Melissa.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Yes, we're ready.

Sharon Johnson: Well, speaking of Melissa, just a reminder about our Patreon. you can find it at patreon.com 80s tvladies and on Patreon, Melissa's Spotify music list will be dropping. so please keep an eye out for that. Plus videos about behind the scenes, things that we shot at the 40th reunion of the Scarecrow and Mrs. King event, where we got to meet a lot of really great people, many, of whom had actually read, had actually listened to the podcast, much to our surprise and delightful fans and some patrons. Exactly. And then starting in January, once a month, we'll be releasing videos of our Zoom interviews. Patreon.com 80s TV ladies.

Susan Lambert Hatem: I love that. Fantastic. I want to thank all of you guys for listening this year and for being a part of the 80s TV ladies community on the podcast, on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, TikTok and YouTube. We are also now on Bluesky and Spoutible, in case you're on those platforms. and also we have a merch store, which we launched this year. It was a busy year. And so, but thank you all for listening, communicating. I am behind in returning emails, so there's lots coming in. and if I haven't replied to you or one of us hasn't replied to you, we will be getting to you soon. So have a beautiful holiday.

Sharon Johnson: We really do appreciate your, feedback. And if you like our show, please leave us a rating and a review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify or wherever it is that you listen. you can mention what shows or ladies you'd like for us to cover. We want to hear from you. And you can find us TV ladies on the various platforms.

Susan Lambert Hatem: We will see you in 2025. Be sure to tune in, January 8th for our next, episode, which will be talking, about, Mama's Family by way of Carol Burnett and the Carol Burnett Show.

Sharon Johnson: As always, we hope 80s TV ladies continues to bring you joy and laughter and lots of fabulous new and old shows to watch, all of which will lead us forward toward being amazing ladies of the 21st century.

Susan Lambert Hatem: [hmm, singing Carol of the Bells] dum da da da, dum da da, dum Melissa Roth: [joining in singing Carol of the Bells] Dong Ding Ding Dong!

Susan Lambert Hatem: Okay, I don't know how the rest of it goes. Okay.

Sharon Johnson: You at least know it. It's my favorite Christmas carol.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Yeah.

Sharon Johnson: [singing Carol of the Bells] Gaily they ring While people sing songs of good cheer Christmas is here Merry, merry, merry, merry Christmas Merry, merry, merry, merry Christmas and with that and their joyful tone to every honk.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Happy holidays,

01:00:00

[Music] [Singing] Amy Englehardt: 80s TV Ladies, So sexy and so pretty. 80s TV Ladies, Steppin’ out into the city. 80s TV Ladies, often treated kind of sh-[wolf whistle]. Working hard for the money in a man’s world. 80s TV Ladies!

‍

‍