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The Scarecrow and His Mrs. King | Bruce Boxleitner  

Melissa Roth: Weirding Way Media.

[Singing] Amy Englehardt: 80s TV Ladies, So sexy and so pretty. 80s TV Ladies, Steppin’ out into the city. 80s TV Ladies, often treated kind of sh-[wolf whistle]. Working hard for the money in a man’s world. 80s TV Ladies!

Melissa Roth: Welcome to 80s TV Ladies, where we look back in order to leap forward. Here are your hosts, Susan Lambert Hatem and Sharon Johnson.  

Susan Lambert Hatem: Hello, I'm Susan.

Sharon Johnson: And I'm Sharon.

Susan Lambert Hatem: I'm so excited for today's episode. Sharon. You know, I first became aware of our next guest when I was like a young child, watching late 70s television western, very loosely based on the 1962 cinematic film of the same name, a little show called How The West Was Won. He played a young Luke Macahan, and I thought he was cute. Cute little cowboy.

Sharon Johnson: I never saw that miniseries.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Oh, it was good. Well, it was a, it was like a two-hour pilot.

Sharon Johnson: Oh, okay.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Then it was a miniseries and then it was a show, and then it was cancelled.

Sharon Johnson: Yeah, I never saw any of it. I wasn't watching a lot of TV then. I was in school. You're talking about Bruce Boxleitner, of course. And, I first remember him from Scarecrow and Mrs. King.  

Susan Lambert Hatem: Really?  

Sharon Johnson: Yeah, I don't. I don't remember seeing anything that he was in before that.  

Susan Lambert Hatem: So the Gambler,  

Sharon Johnson: I apparently didn't watch that, but what a great way to start learning, you know, seeing.

Susan Lambert Hatem: I mean, Scarecrow King is a pretty good start. Yeah, you and Melissa got to meet him in person, told him that we'd love to get him on the show, and he said yes. And he's been working and traveling, but we were finally able to get Bruce Boxleitner on the line. Bruce Boxleitner is a prolific actor, most known for his hit television shows how the west was won, Scarecrow, Mrs. King, Babylon 5 and the Gambler TV movies.

Sharon Johnson: He was also the title star of Disney's 80s sci fi movie Tron, which has spawned a franchise of movies, TV, animation, and a Disney park ride.

Susan Lambert Hatem: A Disney park ride? That's crazy.

Sharon Johnson: A great Disney park ride, if I must say so.

Susan Lambert Hatem: I've not ridden on it yet because it's not out here in California. All right, Mr. Boxleitner has been in over 142 movies and shows, more recently playing presidents in Supergirl and the Orville and voicing John Sheridan in the animated film Babylon 5: The Road Home. John Sheridan being the role he played in Babylon 5 TV show.

Sharon Johnson: He just guest starred on Blue Ridge, the series. And what a treat it is to have him on the show with us. Welcome to 80s TV Ladies Mr. Bruce Boxleitner!

Bruce Boxleitner: Thank you, Sharon. Thank you, Susan.

Susan Lambert Hatem: We are so thrilled to have you.

Bruce Boxleitner: Thank you. We finally made it.

Sharon Johnson: Yeah.

Bruce Boxleitner: We've been talking about this for covering a day.

Susan Lambert Hatem: I so appreciate you taking the time. So, Bruce, you were on a hit show.

Bruce Boxleitner: Yeah.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Playing Lee Stetson on Scarecrow, Mrs. King, the 80s hit show. What are some of your favorite memories or moments at the time when you were making it that you remember? Like, oh, this is great. Compared to now, looking back at it.

Bruce Boxleitner: Oh, my gosh. And how many years has that been now?

Susan Lambert Hatem: 41.

Bruce Boxleitner: So, 1983. Yes, through 87. I personally think had Katie not gotten ill, I think we would have still had a couple, at least a few more seasons in there. They tended to stay with you. And I think we never left the top 25 or 30, somewhere in between there. That was very good for Network television back in those days, believe me. But some of my favorite memories is getting the job that I, haven't talked about too much. I had done this show called Bring Him Back Alive the year before.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Frank Buck.

Bruce Boxleitner: Yeah, Frank Buck. And we were trying to ride on the coattails, television wanted to ride on the coattails of Raiders of the Lost Ark fame, those type of shows. Because then it used to be the movies, the big movies. And then television would try to do some kind of TV version of that. And, always with whatever the trend was, whether it was James Bond, you had the Man From UNCLE and you had what was the great one with Diana Rigg and a British one, the Avengers.  

Anyway, so I struggled mightily and a wonderful cast. And when Cindy and I did the movie Tron together, the original Tron was only a year earlier. They were looking for this actress that could play that kind of 1930s kind of gal, could fit that kind of look. You know, the dresses, the word of the makeup, all of that sort of thing. And I thought of Cindy. And, So we had Cindy aboard. We got her and Clyde Kusatsu, Ron (O’Neal), who played H.H., His Highness.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Yes, he was great.

Bruce Boxleitner: Superfly, you know.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Yeah.

Bruce Boxleitner: Yes.

Susan Lambert Hatem: That show was so impressive.

00:05:00

Bruce Boxleitner: It was very. And we never went on location. We only went out at a place called Indian Dunes out here, which was near where Magic Mountain theme park is now. But that's where movies shot for jungle sequences and things. And then we also had the back lot of Columbia there. We had a pond. We had New York Street. We turned it into Old Singapore, and we had the Raffles Hotel and all those things. So, anyway, long story short, we struggled mightily for the ratings. And I only came in number two every Tuesday night. I was up against another 80s, great early 80s and late 70s, which was the 10th season of Happy Days.

Sharon Johnson: Oh, that would be hard to beat.

Bruce Boxleitner: It was very hard to beat. You know, that was a family show that had been well entrenched in the American psyche, you know, and doing hiatus, So, anyway, I was on the phone to Bud Grant, the head of CBS, at least once a week, going, I know we can get better ratings. I know. Just give us one more. Give us one. He stuck it out as long as he could, and eventually it just realized we went off in like 18 episodes or something like that.  

And that was a blow to me. That was my first stepping out on my own as a, lead of a TV series. But Bud did say this. He said, you know, since we did this on a handshake, and that's how we did the contract back then, how we did the deal in an office with a handshake. Do people do that anymore? I would always be careful if I have my hand after I shook it anyway, but said, we'll find you something better.  

And I went, well, that's wonderful. Thank you so much. And he said, no, we'll find something to find that works. Don't worry about it. So I don't know the real time frame here, but I did get two scripts. One was called, the Yellow Rose. And the other one was this quirky title called Scarecrow and Mrs. King: The First Time. And, I found out that, former Charlie's Angel Katie Jackson was going to be starring in it. And, the role was for her leading man.  

And this other one was a contemporary, sort of what Yellowstone has turned into wouldn't. Not as violent. But, And it had Cybill Shepherd as the lead, Sam Elliot, blah, blah, blah. Big ensemble piece. And, of course, I was living on a horse ranch at the time. I was very into that sort of thing, that lifestyle. And, I thought, boy, this is wonderful.  

But then I kept looking at this pink script, pink pages and blue, and I kept going, gotta do something here to change it up. I'd been already been on How the West Was Won for three, four years. And so I looked at this script and I started laughing from the first moment I started reading. And it just captured me.  

And this is the magic that Brad and Eugenie brought to it. The, writing style is very quirky, I thought, you know, just funny. And it was adventure to it, mystery. And this wonderful relationship between a guy that wanted nothing to do with this woman. He just. He had used her in this caper and then never thought he'd ever see her again.  

And there she was anyway. And their slow relationship, you know, was always. It was a 30s screwball comedy with some, James Bond and some whatever in there and a great ensemble, you know.  

Yes, I thought, you know, Martha, Mel Stewart was the best. I mean, I miss him so much, you know, I wish he could be at these conventions. He would be loving every minute of this, I want to tell you. But, he made me laugh more than anybody I've ever worked with since. And that was a daily basis.  

And of course, Beverly Garland, amazing. she was the scream Queen of the 50s, man. I mean, she. And she did everything. And she had this great settling effect on the cast. So when everybody got a little hypertension, go, all right, calm down, everybody. And everybody just. Mom just talked, right? Mom just chewed us all up. Anyway, I met with Kate, and I forget the guy's name that. Oh, gosh. That. That directed the pilot, but he was renowned for selling a lot of pilots. So we were in an A-team here. She and I had to. We work on these scenes together. And, we were to go before the. All the Network heads, all the chiefs, all the big mucky mucks.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Was this for a screen test?

Bruce Boxleitner: No, this was a live performance noise. Yes. Now, you have to understand our audience. We're television executives who have no imagination, no sense of humor. And we brought in three scenes, and I just immediately knew with Kate that this was. Oh, this was something else. because Kate had that quality of the great leading Ladies of those golden age of Hollywood

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Bruce Boxleitner: movies. Ah, Hepburn. And, you know, all of them that were just boom, boom, boom. She could just motor off. Called her motor mouse.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Anyway, did you call Martha Smith chatty Cathy?

Bruce Boxleitner: That's true, too. Yes. So she was chatty and she was catty. Okay. I mean, she wasn't. Wasn't Francine always.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Yes.

Bruce Boxleitner: That had an attitude. I mean, did she not? Anyway, so we did those three scenes, and we had these hardened television executives laughing openly.

Sharon Johnson: Wow.

Bruce Boxleitner: Begrudgingly, too, I'm gonna say, Sharon, you know, they don't want to, We're very serious people. We're professionals here. We. You can't make us cry. You can't make us laugh. You know, I mean. And we did it all, and we had such a joyous time. I was so high off the experience. They said, very nice to see. Thank you so much, blah, blah, blah. But then they don't want to give away and say you're the guy.

Sharon Johnson: Right.

Bruce Boxleitner: You got to go through all the razzmatazz. But this was a television city. CBS down on Beverly. And I, literally walked out the wrong door onto the roof of the building. I was in a daze. It was an overwhelming experience because I was like, I failed. And then I come in and we get this big win with the same Network that canceled me.  

And I literally walked out on this roof and there's Beverly Boulevard and there's Fairfax. And I go, what the, And the guy down in the, in the, in the guard, shack there goes, wait, what are you doing up there? I said, I don't know. It was right out of, it was right out of a Lee Stetson adventure right there.  

So they had to come in because the doors didn't open from the outside. It was one of those, you know, the top of a building. So anyway, I got back, home and we waited and waited and then the word came. The pilot was at go. They greenlit it. And Kate and I just clicked right from there on. I think it shows right in the pilot. That's some of my favorite stuff. The stuff that, that Brad and Eugenie, they wrote such great humor. It was quirky. I don't think this was 1980s television yet. we stood like, right? Happy Days was not quirky.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Right.

Bruce Boxleitner: It was straight on sitcom. But ours had, you know. And then we shot on location at least in the first, in the pilot. And so some of my fondest memories to go back to your earliest question, was from that very first time, because it was so new, we would later even. I think we even got better as an ensemble. That's natural. We were given time to really, bond and really find each other and find each other's rhythms. I always knew, and I had never had this experience before. My theater experience was the only thing I had that was slightly close with Kate was able to go off script and oftentimes she far surpassed the material. Okay. Which was wonderful. But then I found out I could go with her. She'd start the lead and off I'd go with her. And then pretty soon we're doing stuff that is not on the written page.  

Not a lot. I don't want to emphasize that it was a lot, but it was just enough to make those two. I think what you all loved about those characters is those little in between moments.

Bruce Boxleitner: I call them the reach over to touch and then reluctant. This was also the time of the couples, you know, we already had, and then Remington Steele was on, I think on already. I think it was either a season before us, I'm not sure. And then we had. My worst day is when Moonlighting premiered. Big difference. Big difference. That Kate saw. That Kate saw Cheryl or what's her name? Cybill. And this new guy, Bruce Willis. And she wanted our show to be that way. I did too. Yeah, we loved that. But that was a 9 or 10 o'clock hour. We were an 8 o'clock hour. You know.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Well, to be fair, I think Remington Steele had the same problem, so.

Bruce Boxleitner: Yes, he did. Yes they did. No, I think we all saw this. And that was the brilliance of their writers. Our show had a very solid audience, I'm sure. I can't tell you how many times people have come up to me and God, you know, my. It was like one of those shows because it was the 8:00 hour. younger people sat with mom, my mom and dad. It was family television at its best, I think. And we, we provided a delightful funny hour. And we brought some adventure and we wrapped it up at the end, you know. But we would have these conferences about how long are we going to sustain this sexual tension, mash-up and the fans were split and they were still

00:15:00

Bruce Boxleitner: going. We didn't have, you know, email or X or anything like that.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Now are you happy about that or sad about that?

Bruce Boxleitner: I'm actually happy about that. I don't know how they do it now. Yeah. And they liked the opening numbers, the Nielsen ratings. What leads you in is important. And then after your show, your numbers to lead into the next one. Right. Or do people just all of a sudden turn the channel?

Sharon Johnson: Right.

Bruce Boxleitner: That's what you have sleepless nights about. But I think what we worried about the most is that we wanted the fans to continue to love Lee and Amanda. And we would sit there. I mean, I got vividly in my mind's eye, Kate and I sitting in our chairs going, no, I don't think they should. I think we need to sustain this longer. No, no, they want us to kiss. And I was always the one going, no, no, I think we need to sustain it.

Sharon Johnson: I'm with you on that, Bruce. I was, you know, it was.

Bruce Boxleitner: A tough one, Sharon.

Susan Lambert Hatem: I mean, I'm with the kissing part, I think.

Bruce Boxleitner: Hold on. I lost my ears. Hold on. This is so Scarecrow, isn't it? I think you should show me fuddling around with technology. I think it's anyway, it is.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Very Scarecrow, though I do think it's very Scarecrow.

Bruce Boxleitner: Imagine, you know, the spin off we could have done years later was now we do have cell phones and Internet and everything. And how would they have adapted to this world when, the boys are grown up and going, oh, my God, Dad, Dad.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Let's take a quick break. We'll be right back.  

Sharon: We're back.

Bruce Boxleitner: Let's jump right in the good memories of doing this. We were in Washington D.C. we were driving around. I had a 63, Porsche Speedster that died every other take. Oh, no. In the middle of Washington D.C. traffic.

Sharon Johnson: Oh, no.

Bruce Boxleitner: that's why I'll, reveal to you. That's why when we got a new stunt team in after the second, I think it was the second season, I still had that. When did I kill that?

Susan Lambert Hatem: You killed the car? Yeah. You killed the car. I believe in the second season.

Bruce Boxleitner: Yes. Just like the old cowboy movies, the star cowboy has to have a fantastic horse and it has a name, you know. so in this, Gary, Davis, my stunt, double who auditioned for me right in front of everybody, he took a motorcycle at top speed and laid it down across the Columbia Studios parking lot and got up and was okay. He did all my motorcycle driving. You know, all that stuff we had to do, like over in Europe and stuff. I mean, he could literally go on camera and did a number of times as me. And you all probably didn't realize it, that it was him doing it. They, didn't want to have me, you know, go and get Kate. I killed. So anyway, he said, you need a car. This was the 80s.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Cars were very important.

Bruce Boxleitner: 80S Ladies was. Car chases were very big. Come on. Every show had. We had the 18. We had all these things. Magnum had a Ferrari. All those guys. So Gary Davis says we got the perfect thing. It's all engine and fiberglass and it'll go. And it's just that the fact was that I'm six foot two and a half trying to fit that on like a pair of pants. You think that Porsche Speedster was something. God, I'd have to drive up and jump out, right? It's like I'm coming out of a para of fiberglass pants of some sort, trying to get one leg out of the car. I had to master that. I actually rehearsed that more than I did some scenes sometimes. So. But anyway, I got that Corvette. Yes, 84 Corvette.

Sharon Johnson: My brother had one of those. My brother had an 84 Corvette.

Bruce Boxleitner: And it like you said it was all engine. And I mean, we always had, you know, a lot of retired police as our, security when we did stuff out on the streets, like chase scenes and stuff like that. And I delighted in doing 80 down a 30 mile an hour thing with Kate going, slow down, slow down, slow Down, slow down, slow down.

Bruce Boxleitner: And I just put the belt. I love it because I went right by the cops going.

Susan Lambert Hatem: I'm stunned how many stunts they let you guys do.

Bruce Boxleitner: Yeah, we did it a lot. I did always the medium and the close ups of all my fight scenes. That means I had to hit the ground too. That's why I'm a physical wreck today. In my 70s. I'm paying for all that youthful vigor.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Like James Garner did.

Bruce Boxleitner: Yes, James Garner, all those guys. Also I had two great guys, Gary Davis and a guy named, Tom Morgan. And Tom and I had this thing, we called it the old switcheroo. So Lee jumps down on a roof and then

00:20:00

Bruce Boxleitner: he jumps down behind a pile of packing crates. And then I come around the other side. Now it has to be timed just perfect so that your mind links. He goes falling down. Beep, beep, beep. I would come around, right? You have to have enough time. You can't just instantly come jumping out. And we would do that with the high walls that they didn't let me go over. All the little tricks of the trade, you know, the fight scenes, which I had every week we had to choreograph, they were always done at the end of the day, unless Katie had to be right in the middle of it. She usually came in with the frying, pan and hit the bad guy in the head. Just as I've just had the crap kicked out of me for, you know, 15 minute bit. But we also had a gag reel of Scarecrow losing his gun. I was a highly trained operative, United States government. Right? I was of the agency. I was trained, I was a marksman. I could hit anything, I could shoot, I could do everything. But somehow I would have to lose the gun in the last thing. So we could subdue the bad guys or bad guy, girl, whatever.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Without shooting them.

Bruce Boxleitner: Without shooting them, yes. And Kate had to use her house-Wifely ways

Susan Lambert Hatem: Yes.

Bruce Boxleitner: I'll just pull this and the whole. The barrels will come down on top.

Susan Lambert Hatem: But it was so, ah, very clever. It was well choreographed. We did lovely. Yeah.

Bruce Boxleitner: And to think we made a movie every seven days, right? Eight days, actually. I'm going to reveal something on Warner Brothers books. Scarecrow came in at a, seven-day shoot once. Once in four years. Yeah. A little scoopy.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Very scoopy. We won't tell.

Bruce Boxleitner: I don't work there anymore, so nobody I. Nobody I know works there anymore.

Sharon Johnson: You mentioned a few minutes ago, briefly about, shooting in Europe that one season. What was that like for you?

Bruce Boxleitner: Oh, Sharon, that was, That's one of the great adventures of my life. 1984, the Olympics came to Los Angeles. They're about to come again. Since we shot in the LA area, in specifically the Valley, for the most part we would go to Europe.

Bruce Boxleitner: It was amazing because that was my first time ever going to Europe. We went specifically to Munich, Germany. I think we shot four episode. Five episodes over there in the time.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Yeah.

Bruce Boxleitner: We also had a writer strike stop us. So we were stuck in Munich, Germany, because we were supposed to move on to Salzburg, Austria. Munich was so much fun. And there we were. And when you get. Let the children. We have nothing to do but play. Yes, I know Munich very well.

Susan Lambert Hatem: So apparently does Martha.

Bruce Boxleitner: Yes, Martha does. She does. Does she talk? yes, We've had a few parties. I never know who Martha was going to bring next. But anyway, that's another story. It was fun. We were young, we were in our 30s. And

Susan Lambert Hatem: You were on a hit show.

Bruce Boxleitner: We were on a hit show. We were in Europe with, per diem money to spend because they had to keep us there because the strike. I don't. I think it went two, weeks or something. Oh my God. We needed to go back to work. We were going to be in real bad shape otherwise. I was out all night. We were out all night. Several places. We went to these nightclubs and Martha, And I, We went. Who else was with us? Only the guest stars. We were in a place in Munich that wasn't, we walked into a bad, place. Not a bad place, but The punk rock scene in there was very scary back in those days. Very scary. And Martha and I had to. I had to grab Martha's hand and get her out of there. And we ran for a cab. I remember that. It was right out of Scarecrow, I swear to God.

Sharon Johnson: Oh, wow.

Bruce Boxleitner: Yeah, we had to. There were some nasty characters in there. I mean, it was crazy. And of course they were, They thought Martha was great and But they all wanted to have Martha there. And anyway, she was loving it until she wasn't. And we got out of there.

Susan Lambert Hatem: You had to rescue her like Scarecrow.

Bruce Boxleitner: I did. I'll admit something. I had to hit a guy. To get him off of her.

Sharon Johnson: Oh, wow.

Bruce Boxleitner: I did. That was like Scarecrow, wow. And we ran like hell and got out of there. And, there were people that helped us get out of there. Yeah. She doesn't remember that. We were laughing so hard, too. How we had walked into this and got ourselves in there. Everybody wanted to dance, though. And it was like banging, where you're banging into each other and that kind of thing. Oh, my God. It wasn't my style. Could you see Lee slept in and.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Slammed the mosh pit.

Bruce Boxleitner: Mosh pit kind of stuff. And it was just deafening noise. And it was, But she wanted to go, so. But I know we had some other people there, but we all scattered. I think Martha went to London or something like that. She was dating a guy.

00:25:00

Bruce Boxleitner: I think she had boyfriends all over.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Yeah, she had quite a wild time. She told us a little bit.

Bruce Boxleitner: Oh, she had a wonderful time. She had a wonderful time.

Susan Lambert Hatem: And you worked with Jean Stapleton and Jean Stapleton.

Bruce Boxleitner: There we were in the Alps. Gosh, I wish she could have stayed for more episodes. I think she would have been, I don't know what her deal was, professionally with. With it. she had reoccurring. But I think every time she was on, it was such a fun episode. Remember the one where we turned the house into a KGB?

Susan Lambert Hatem: I love that. Yes. That was a very quintessential Scarecrow episode. And she was fantastic because she got to play the Russian agent. And it was wonderful.

Bruce Boxleitner: She used going to, Austria as, Well, I'm going to. You know what. What. How many days do I have off? And we don't need to see, We don't need you for four days. And so we were tourists. I mean, we were in the car driving and going all over. All over that part of Europe, you know, while we had the time off on the weekends, we always hit the road. of course, on, When you're on location, you work six days a week. So Sunday we raised hell. It was great.

Susan Lambert Hatem: You were working with Juanita Bartlett by this point.

Bruce Boxleitner: Loved Juanita.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Can you talk? Tell us more about working with her. I'm a huge fan of hers.

Bruce Boxleitner: As much as I loved, Brad and Eugenie, they left the show very early on. Okay. And, I want to always say they laughed all the way to the bank afterwards. So whatever the. I didn't get myself into the, whatever was going on politically within the studio and everything and those. Anyway, they departed and, we had this wonderful woman, and her great writing staff. Steve Hatman, Greatest Story Guy. They all came from, the Rockford Files, you know.

Sharon Johnson: Yes.

Bruce Boxleitner: And she used to tell me. She used to say to me, you're very much like Jim Garner. I went, oh, really? Yes. Yeah. I don't ever have to go to long dialogue meetings. Whatever you handed me, it's always been my. My thing. and it's sort of. She said that Jim Garner told her this. He said, my job is to do the dialogue that you sat up all night doing. It started with a little germ of an idea, and then you went on and created this. It's my job to do every word. Every word. I just suddenly start talking off script, which I'll refer to what I earlier said. I was very much of that school. Katie, not so much. I mean, not that she. And this is not a bad thing. I'm just saying that she had that great improvisational skill to be able to, in character, leap right off the written word. And I'd have to leap with her because otherwise it wouldn't be any sense. But I always try to get us right back to.  

But Jim Garner said that my job. And if I just. And if I can't do it, if I just can't make it real, then I'm going to ask, how can we make this real for me? How does it work? Coming out of my mouth? I mean, you know, those characters become you Ladies. They become you become the character. The character becomes you. This is my personal view, and I've said it before, I think the European episodes are probably some of the best because it just fit in Europe. It just fit. Trying to get her: How do we logically get her over to Europe to have all these misadventures? I mean, there we were, you know, Buckingham palace in England, in London. we were in the real new Scotland Yard building. we used that, when I had to do this interrogation of the Mongoose. Remember him? M. He was wonderful. He was an expat American actor over there. The Legend of Das Geisterschloss. That's probably one of my favorite episodes.

Susan Lambert Hatem: That's a great episode.

Bruce Boxleitner: I had to try to put Scarecrow in all my magnificent suits. That Jimmy Lapidas, I want to give him credit, too. I did not like my, wardrobe in the first seasons. End of second season, we got a brand new guy because they were having to do hers, Martha's. And it just got overwhelming. I, forget his name. Wonderful older gentleman. I had been in the studio since you know. Yeah, probably World War II. I had these clunky sweaters and punk. I looked too Ivy Leagueish. If you want to make that guy who was running around Europe realistic, he was going to be in nice European suits. I had every suit. When we went to Europe, the first, three days I was there, I was in Seville Row in London. I was getting outfitted for everything with suits made for me. Now Lee Stetson would have had that.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Yeah, for sure.

Bruce Boxleitner: He was always a faker, you know that. He always tried to come up so continental. And he was not. He was an army brat, you know, raised in the Midwest, base. Anyway,

00:30:00

Bruce Boxleitner: you know, that stuff, that story. But that's when my wardrobe, they went. No, no, that's, that's it. Some of these weird shorts with, you know, khaki pants and, and an Ivy League sweater. And I looked like. And the way I looked then, I looked like I was a college boy. I mean, know.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Yeah, you had to have the James Bond suits, right to.

Bruce Boxleitner: Yes, to play the shoes. And then when, when we got to Austria, same thing. It was, you know, I was at the tailor. Everything was made for me. And so if you notice, I'm in better suits in the whole thing. Very continental looking. And that's the way Lee would have dressed over there. But yeah, those were, those were my favorite episodes because of the adventure of going over there. My wife and son, oldest boy was now 44 years old. That showed you how long ago that was. Gary Davis had a daughter, Jennifer. And I had my son Sam, who was only, I think he wasn't even, wasn't even 5 or 6 years old. I'm not sure at the time. Anyway, Kitty and he came over to visit us. We got started and then they came to Munich and joined us and my mother in law came with him to help. And that was wonderful.  

Yeah, great. little incident when they were coming in, Gary and I and little Jennifer, Jennifer was with him. Came to the airport in Munich. We're going to pick my family up. And at this time in Germany, there were a lot of extremist groups blowing up things. In reality, our show was so timely because, they had. The Red Brigade was running around Europe blowing up people and robbing banks and carrying on. And they looked a lot like Martha Smith. Anyway, there was. And these two little ones. Jennifer had been with her daddy now for a few weeks and you know, she had. There were no little kids and yet a babysitter with her. And so they Looked at each other, and here comes my wife and Sam, little Sammy, and he's walking, holding her hand. And they just stared across this big space. There's all these guys with machine guns standing around. You know, the. The Polizei over there. They were serious dudes, and they had automatic weapons. And in between that, these two little ones run to each other, never ever having met, and grab a hold of each other and are hugging. It was the whole airport and that all. Everybody stopped going. Oh, you know, I was like, crazy. We had peace in Germany. Ah. Right at that moment.  

So it was. It was fun. I don't know why I tell that story.

Sharon Johnson: That's a lovely memory. Oh, my gosh.

Bruce Boxleitner: They were with me. Yeah, they were with me throughout the rest of the trip, you know, so we, We. It became such a family affair, you know, so Europe was cool. And then we came back, and it was kind of back to Burbank again.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Can I ask about one other episode in particular? one of my favorite episodes from season two is Burnout. I think you do a fabulous job, as does Jackson, and it's sort of a little, you know, Spy Who Came in from the Cold. Like, it's just got all the. All the best elements of Scarecrow and Mrs. King. and it also.

Bruce Boxleitner: Still under. Was that still under Juanita's time?

Susan Lambert Hatem: I think it was. I think it was because it was season two, and I think she was on, one.

Bruce Boxleitner: Oh, yes, they did.

Susan Lambert Hatem: And two. But I'd love to ask you about a moment in the bar. I don't know if you remember it, where you.

Bruce Boxleitner: Oh, is it the Amanda?

Susan Lambert Hatem: You're tapping Amanda's face. You're trying to get her to leave, and you actually slap her. Do you remember this?

Bruce Boxleitner: Yeah. I wish we had a film to go to. I could. I could.

Susan Lambert Hatem: I can go find it real quick and I can show you, because I would love to get. Okay, I'll go do that. You guys keep talking.

Bruce Boxleitner: Okay. Sharon, you did, But you like the, European episodes?

Sharon Johnson: Oh, the European. Like you. I thought the European episodes were really terrific. And it clearly. You were shooting in Europe, and at.

Bruce Boxleitner: The time, and it lent itself to. It was 1984. Cold War was still going. We were only miles. And sometimes we were only miles away from the Iron Curtain.

Sharon Johnson: Right.

Bruce Boxleitner: I mean, seriously. And we had all these wonderful German and English. I realized there were a lot of actors living in Europe doing, you know, European films and television. It just expanded my mind so much. Again, I felt I was a better Lee Stetson When I, by the time I got home, I actually was talking. I actually was living some of the stuff that Lee would refer to. No, I didn't know how to speak Urdu, but I, certainly could fake, an Austrian or German accent and those type of things because I was around it all the time. And you got to understand that that show did not play over there. The crew had no idea. European. It hadn't been on European television yet.

00:35:00

Bruce Boxleitner: This still happened that way.

Sharon Johnson: Yeah, it wasn't like it is now, where, you know, things show up. Yeah, it's immediate. It takes a while for things to make their way around the world.

Bruce Boxleitner: Yeah, we have satellite too, you know, we're getting in immediately. I think we did a dog-gone good job. I certainly knew how to come up in a kitchen window. And just as Beverly was about to turn around, be down in the flower bed, you know, right from the get go. That made me laugh. That was one of the first things that made me laugh out loud when I read the pilot script was just imagining that scene.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Had you done a lot of comedy before you did Scarecrow?

Bruce Boxleitner: No, no, no, no. I did all those cop show. I was a punk in all those cop shows. Beretta. I did, two Hawaii, Five O's. I did those kind of shows, you know, the third guy and something, you know. And, so no, in television I never got to do comedy.  

Now on Broadway I did. And I did a show for a couple of years in, Chicago, was in Washington D.C. and also very briefly in Broadway in New York and then back to Chicago and then a one way ticket to Los Angeles where I said, I'm going to try L. A.

Susan Lambert Hatem: And now did you have to decide, like, New York, L.A. did you have that actor moment?

Bruce Boxleitner: I was in New York. I was there for about a year. You know, my old, My youngest son Michael lives there. And, my wife and I just, went to. A couple months back, went to New York just for the weekend to see him in his off-Broadway debut. What show?

Susan Lambert Hatem: What show is it still?

Bruce Boxleitner: It's. No, no, it was, It's one of these small. Yeah, they call, them black box theaters are about 99-seat theatre.

Susan Lambert Hatem: I know it well. I've been there.

Bruce Boxleitner: Yes. Okay. It was just he and a wonderful young actress. It was called Constellations. I think he could probably find it, but he was wonderful. I've got another actor I'm very proud of, but he loves New York and, he’s older. He's older. He's 28 I mean, I was 20. I turned 21 in New York City.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Our oldest. Our oldest, Owen, is in New York, and they're having a great time.

Bruce Boxleitner: Loves it. Yeah. You know, this is. Yeah, I get it. I. It was. That was, you know, leaving home. Chicago broke me in. And then New York, I thought, oh, my God, this is like Chicago on steroids. This was, you know, made it even more gigantic. But it was a wonderful place, and you got to be young there. I'm sorry.

Bruce Boxleitner: I couldn't do it now. Just too many people. That's just me and, Too many people on.

Susan Lambert Hatem: All right, I found the scene.

Bruce Boxleitner: Yes.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Okay. All right, let me share. Share my screen. Let's see if I can pull this off.

Sharon Johnson: We have faith, Susan.

Susan Lambert Hatem: I know you can do it. You can do it.

Bruce Boxleitner: Okay, here we go. Oh, my God.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Okay, let me see. Make sure the sound's up. Oh, yes. It's a cliffhanger. Clearly, we've got quite a lot more to talk about with Bruce Boxleitner, so we're gonna leave you here for this episode and pick up next time with part two, where we will show Mr. Boxleitner the scene I'm talking about, if you're so inclined. This also gives you time to seek out the scene for yourself. The episode is from season two, episode 21, entitled Burnout, written by Lisa Seidman, directed by Sigmund Neufeld Jr. Takes place about 18 minutes into the episode. So don't miss part two with Bruce Boxleitner, where we will talk about that scene with the scarecrow himself and then so much more. Join us.

Sharon Johnson: For today's audiography. Find out more about bruce boxleitner@facebook.com boxleitner Bruce and Instagram. Also Oxleitner Bruce and he's on cameo.

Susan Lambert Hatem: So cameo.comboxleitnerBruce  

Sharon Johnson: Okay, I guess that’s it for this episode. So, as always, we hope 80s TV Ladies brings you joy and laughter and lots of fabulous new and old shows to watch, all of which will lead us forward toward being amazing Ladies of the 21st century.

[Music] [Singing] Amy Englehardt: 80s TV Ladies, So sexy and so pretty. 80s TV Ladies, Steppin’ out into the city. 80s TV Ladies, often treated kind of sh-[wolf whistle]. Working hard for the money in a man’s world. 80s TV Ladies!

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