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8TL_Episdoe 238_Top Ten Guest Stars of A Different World aka The Star-Studded Legacy of 'A Different World'

Sharon Johnson: Weirding wear media.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Out into the city working hard for the money in a man's world 86 Ladies.

Sharon Johnson: Welcome to a B's tv Ladies, where we look back in order to leap forward. Here are your hosts, Susan Lamberthe Hatem and Sharon Johnson.

Sharon Johnson: Hello, I'm Sharon.

Susan Lambert Hatem: And I'm Susan.

Sharon Johnson: You know, one of the things I love about looking back at eighties television is you get to see some m early and amazing young stars and very exciting stunt casting. And a different world was no exception. In fact, other than shows like the Love Boat, Fantasy island and hotel, it's probably one of the greatest shows for.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Guest stars from the eighties. That is right. I had forgotten Sharon. What an amazing cast and a huge regular cast. It's six seasons. It's all out of college. So as the original cast grows up and graduates, they bring in a new set of freshmen coming in, starting seasons four, five, and six. But, like, it's a living. It's a living was like that. They had an evolution of cast, but in a different world. Those cast changes changed the show because of these new characters coming in the show. And the stories evolve to meet them as opposed to like, it's a living or other shows where they replace cast members and they'll be different characters, obviously, but the show doesn't substantially change. The stories don't substantially change. And, yet I think with a different world, that was one of the things that struck me is they were writing and adjusting to these new cast members when they came in, which was interesting.

Sharon Johnson: And I think one of the other things they did that a lot of shows about people who were in college, let alone high school, is they let the cast age pretty much in step with where their characters were. We got to see characters graduate before the end of the series and trying to get that first job and all those kinds of things. That typically doesn't happen. I mean, people in tv shows that are in high school or college tend to spend much longer in, those schools than most of us do out in the real world.

Susan Lambert Hatem: It's challenge for every show that's set in high school or college, but I think they do it pretty well. There's so many cast members. I began to realize, oh, this is not just a sitcom. This is a soap. This is a soap. It's a soap opera sitcom.

Sharon Johnson: Oh, interesting. I know.

Susan Lambert Hatem: It's relationships. It's really an evolving storyline and so many characters.

Sharon Johnson: Yeah, I never thought of that. I mean, certainly when it comes to the storylines, they were not shy about tackling all kinds of issues related to people in that age group and some of the things they're going through and some of the things that may happen, as well as some of the things that are happening or could be happening in the greater world as well. They didn't shy away from any of that and gave the characters an opportunity to find their way to kind of figure out what they're thinking or what they think about some of these things. And we got to watch that happen. It's pretty remarkable that way.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Yeah. I'm really appreciating this rewatch in a whole new light. And so much of it is the characters and the cast, the recurring cast, the starring cast, but also all the guest cast, so many young stars that went on to do amazing things, so many big stars that came in to kind of be a big star in those episodes. And I just. There's such a joy in the guest cast.

Sharon Johnson: Yeah. And it's kind of seamless in a lot of shows. There's the, oh, here's the big guest star kind of thing. In this case, they come in, they're playing a role, and, yeah, they're a big guest star, but they kind of seamlessly pull them into the show and into the story, and you kind of lose some of that big guest starriness that sometimes you have in shows, which I think is great. But the other side of this amazing list of guest stars on the show is that there just weren't a lot of roles for actors of color, black actors at this time, and a different world because of the milieu, if you will, gave an opportunity for all kinds of roles, all kinds of different sorts of people, and therefore all kinds of different guest stars to come in for a week or as a recurring character or a couple of episodes or whatever it may be. So, yeah, I mean, it's just really remarkable. And I'm probably gonna go back and watch all the episodes I didn't get a chance to see so far.

Susan Lambert Hatem: I was a fan of season one, which, again, people

00:05:00

Susan Lambert Hatem: now think are like, you know, is not as good as the sort of reboot and moving on. It's not as focused. It sort of doesn't really tackle a lot as much serious or interesting subject matters in interesting ways as the deeper seasons do. But I loved the setup. I loved the characters I was in. I remember enjoying it, but I was also in film school and then out of film school and trying to have a career and then in grad school. And so I was not able to watch a lot of television during this run this late part of the eighties, early part of the nineties I'm not as familiar with. And so I would only catch it, really, when it was the guest stars. Those are the ones I would be like, oh, well, I want to see Diane Carroll, and I want to see, Tupac Shakur. Well, we didn't know who. I would not know who Tupac was.

Sharon Johnson: I know, but still. I know, in retrospect, it's great.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Yes. But I definitely knew who whoopi Goldberg was. I definitely knew who, you know, Lena Horne.

Sharon Johnson: Lena Horne.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Come on.

Sharon Johnson: I mean, those were Blair underwear or wood. Sorry.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Did you do that on purpose, Melissa?

Sharon Johnson: I've always called him Blair underwear.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Now, have you worked with him? Oh, my God.

Sharon Johnson: Once, yes. And he was, like, really almost naked. He was, like, in his underwear. I didn't tell him to his face that I called. Yeah, it was like a shower seat, and I had to, like, take the towel from him.

Sharon Johnson: Oh, yes. It was very exciting.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Did you have to measure to him? no. Yes, you did.

Sharon Johnson: Well, I was there. It was like this little. It was like a shower that they shoved into the middle of the stage, and I was like, it was me and him.

Susan Lambert Hatem: All right. What show?

Sharon Johnson: Dirty sexy money. It only lasted, like, a season. I think. Maybe two.

Sharon Johnson: I think. No, just one season on ABC.

Sharon Johnson: One season.

Sharon Johnson: Yeah.

Sharon Johnson: Yeah. And it was great. It was Blair. Blair was great to work with.

Sharon Johnson: I forgot he was on that show that was at ABC when I was there.

Sharon Johnson: Okay, and who's the woman that I worked with? the older couple, the parents. They were very famous.

Sharon Johnson: Donald Sutherland.

Sharon Johnson: Donald Sutherland. Yes.

Sharon Johnson: They don't remember the woman.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Oh, it's Peter Krause.

Sharon Johnson: Yes.

Susan Lambert Hatem: I was on your ass.

Sharon Johnson: Yes.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Jill Claiborne.

Sharon Johnson: Thank you. Jill Claiborne.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Wow.

Sharon Johnson: It was great to have a lou.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Wow, this is a cast.

Sharon Johnson: It was a great cast.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Yeah, it was Lucy Liu.

Sharon Johnson: Oh, I forgot. Yeah, it was great cast. It was fun to work on.

Susan Lambert Hatem: All right. Okay. Well, we have certainly gotten off track, because underwear. Blair underwear.

Sharon Johnson: See, I'm.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Now, you know, it.

Sharon Johnson: I hope it never comes out of my mouth, but I will certainly have to think about it every time his name comes up.

Susan Lambert Hatem: This is not what we came to talk about.

Sharon Johnson: So cute, though.

Sharon Johnson: Oh, gosh.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Though. He was one of the guest stars.

Sharon Johnson: Yes, he was.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Season four, episode twelve, that we were looking at anyway. Oh, my God. Okay. Well, I don't even know how to get back on track. All I'm now thinking about is Melissa in the day producing. No, you don't do that anymore. For camera, they don't have to go measure, but when I started, you should, as camera assistant, you should still measure. You take this little measuring tape from the lens of the camera to the eye, even with, what you're focusing on. Well, in the case of Blair Underwood coming out of a shower, apparently it was his underwear.

Sharon Johnson: No, that's what I was focusing on.

Sharon Johnson: I was actually going to suggest that you explain what measuring, when you refer.

Susan Lambert Hatem: To that literally, a measuring tape, don't use a metal one. And don't take it to their eye. You take it to.

Sharon Johnson: No, that's bad.

Susan Lambert Hatem: That's bad.

Sharon Johnson: That's bad protocol.

Susan Lambert Hatem: That's bad protocol.

Sharon Johnson: Yes. If you're gonna go to an actor's eye, if you use a tape, then you have, like, an assistant catch it and hold it up.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's soft. It's a soft.

Sharon Johnson: And you put like, foam and big brake tape so they know it's coming. And usually it's when they're very close anyway. And so everybody's just like. So it's the camera's assistant job to know the distance between the focal plane and the actor that you're shooting or whatever you're looking at at all times. It's fascinating. Fun job. You either have it or you don't. Can be very stressful.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Yeah, it was very, especially because you did.

Sharon Johnson: It was film, so you had to wait for dailies to see if it was in focus.

Susan Lambert Hatem: You couldn't just look at the. Oh, no, no. Didn't work like that in the old days. You had to get it right. Check the gate.

Sharon Johnson: Checking the gate. Good for you, Susan.

Susan Lambert Hatem: That was. Yes.

Sharon Johnson: Do you wanna explain to our viewers what the gate is in an old film camera?

Susan Lambert Hatem: Yes. When you used film, the film goes through and takes a picture one at a time. You run those all together. And this is what I remember. Cause I started as a camera assistant.

Sharon Johnson: I know you did.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Way back in the day. Cause I knew camera and I needed a job. And, checking

00:10:00

Susan Lambert Hatem: the gate meant after you had the take that you knew was good, you had to make sure there had been nothing that got into the gate. So the gate being the frame that the film ran through. So you would pull off the lens or the front or the back of the camera.

Sharon Johnson: There are two ways to do it. You can do it through the lens.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Yeah.

Sharon Johnson: And you look and see if there's any. What happens with film? Is it soft? The emulsion that you photograph is soft. And so sometimes little strings, which you will see on old movies, if you ever see a string wiggling, that would be the projector end. You know, when they printed it and transferred it, it was dirty. But the same thing can happen in the original.

Susan Lambert Hatem: And so if the gate was dirty or had a hair.

Sharon Johnson: Yeah, you would call it a hair.

Susan Lambert Hatem: You would call it a hair. But it was emulsion. Correct. That got straightened off. and you could see it, and then you'd be like, and it's terrible because then you have to go, it's not good. And everybody, by that point is like, it's great. We got the take.

Sharon Johnson: Woo hoo.

Sharon Johnson: You have to yell at. Everybody's running. And you're like, stop the race. Stop the race.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Not good. We're not moving on.

Sharon Johnson: And they looked at you like you did it. You're like, hey, man, I just work here.

Susan Lambert Hatem: I remember the days of kind of waiting with bated breath, being the one looking for it. And you're like, you don't want to get it wrong. You don't want to say it's good and it wasn't good. And. Cause when it comes back from the.

Sharon Johnson: Lab, it's an old machine. Yes. It's like a sewing machine.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Yeah.

Sharon Johnson: Oh, those days, like a lot of things. I actually appreciate having gone through the transition from film to digital, seeing that transition, as opposed to being all on one side or all on the other, have a real appreciation for it.

Sharon Johnson: Right.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Yeah, I do too. I do too. And particularly, editing was the same way it was by hand. When you made a cut, you had to cut your film. And if you cut it too many times, you'd get in real trouble. Right.

Sharon Johnson: You know, they have, like, all tape.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Oh, no. Yeah. So you really had to think about how you wanted to shoot the scene, how you wanted to cut the scene, and you really had to make decisions. You couldn't just fix it in post, which you can do now. You don't have to make as many decisions up front because you can sit there and try a cut 15 different ways. You can have AI try a cut. And yet, I think one of the reasons that sometimes film and even tv now feels not as real, and I will argue that it doesn't. Even though it's produced at a level that the eighties couldn't touch, it doesn't always count. There's some breath in there. There's sort of the idea of the paintbrush stroke. Right. That paint on canvas feels different.

Sharon Johnson: Oh, yes. They're two completely different. I mean, film was actual silver. There was a chemical reaction happening.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Yeah.

Sharon Johnson: There was a chemical reaction. You had to multiple steps of a chemical reaction. And so it was very physical. and tv, you know, video is the matrix. Ones and zeros, ones and zeros, ones and zeros.

Susan Lambert Hatem: And so I think it's very different. And it's sort of like stunts. Like you can now do anything right and not all of it. It almost feels like too much. I don't know. I just have a great appreciation for how hard it was just to make anything in the eighties and before.

Susan Lambert Hatem: But I also, like you, appreciate that I was on both sides of it when we were, I was at film school when the first edit droid, when the first nonlinear editing system came in, it was called Edit Droid. It was in on Laserdiscs. We had one at USC. We had vhs to vhs editing, so we had tape to tape editing, so we saw it all. And we also had the old moviolas.

Sharon Johnson: The Moviola is the stand up moviola.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Stand up, new violas and the flatbeds. And you didn't want to get your fingers stuck in some of that mechanics. That would be bad. yeah.

Sharon Johnson: So I think, I even think of the sound they don't have. Like there was a 24 track where you had 24 tracks. Stop them, roll them back.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Oh, yeah. Sound mixing was like sound mixing banks. Yeah, none of that. Now push a button.

Sharon Johnson: The magic of movie telling. Indeed.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Movie telling, moving, telling. That's our new thing. Back to movie telling, television telling. We are off topic. Back to a different world. And the cast, we're doing a show. We are doing the top ten guest stars on a different world. Now here's the problem of this. There's too many. There's more than ten. We decided we would each pick six and then compare notes and then try to narrow it down. I think that's what we're going to try to do.

Sharon Johnson: And these are not, let's say that these are not in any particular order. These are just our favorite six. I'm not going to.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Because you're not going to order them?

Sharon Johnson: No, because unless you let me have just a tie at number one, because

00:15:00

Sharon Johnson: I cannot separate those two. To me, they belong together. one is not better than the other or more of my favorite than the other.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Okay, let's first just give you some layout of the evolution of the cast. Perfect. And, the main cast.

Sharon Johnson: So for season one, our main cast was Lisa bonet, who played Denise Huxtable. Marisa tomei was one of her roommates. Maggie and dawn lewis was jalisa who was also one of Denise's roommates. Now, dawn washing, a little older than everyone else. She was, I think, around 24. Then there's also Jasmine guy who played Whitley, Gilbert Kadim Hardison, who played Dwyane Wayne. Darrell M. Bell who played Ron Johnson, no relation. Mary Alice was letitia, lettie Bostic. And then Sinbad was coach Walter Oaks. He was a basketball coach, I believe.

Susan Lambert Hatem: And he was in just in a couple of episodes of season one, from my memory.

Sharon Johnson: That sounds about right. But he did come in in season.

Susan Lambert Hatem: One, and then continued through the show. Yeah. And became more of a recurring character rather than sort of an occasional character. And then season two, Lisa Bonet and Marisa Tomei leave the show for a variety of reasons. We covered in other episodes. Charlene Brown and Cree Summer joined the cast as students. Kimberly Reese and Freddie Brooks. And I like them.

Sharon Johnson: I did, too.

Susan Lambert Hatem: They didn't really replace those characters because it was really more like Whitney moved up kind of to the sort of.

Sharon Johnson: Kind of the lead. The lead. The lead female character, female student, if you will.

Susan Lambert Hatem: So I thought that was really great. And then they brought in more adult professor or mentor characters. Glenn Turman and Lou Myers playing Colonel Bradford Taylor. And the Pitt's proprietor, who was in the pit, was the cool hangout where everybody sort of works and gossips and meets up and dances and. Yeah, it was a fun place. And he was the proprietor. And they were sort of, again, kind of the wise adults.

Sharon Johnson: Exactly. So no real significant changes, I don't think, in season three. But come seasons four, five, and six, we get Asia Sanders, who was another girl in the dorm. Gina Devereux. Jada Pinkett. This was before she married Will Smith. She was Lena James and then Karen. Melina White as Charmaine Brown.

Susan Lambert Hatem: And these were the freshmen. These were sort of the freshmen coming in because we had upper class. All of our original cast was now upper class, graduating and either moving on or staying in relationship to the college, but were on their way out of being college students.

Sharon Johnson: Correct.

Susan Lambert Hatem: So they brought in this amazing sort of new round of students. This was a Jada Pinkett's kind of breakout.

Susan Lambert Hatem: All of these people who are now stars, Jasmine guy, were not stars. Sinbad. It was pretty early. Sinbad. He had been a comic, and I think he had come in as a warm up guy for the Cosby show. And I think he did a Cosby episode and then moved over to a different world anyway. So that's exciting. And this cast is just so impressive. Without this show, many of these actors would not have had the careers they had.

Sharon Johnson: Yes, certainly the younger actors. And it gave opportunity to some of the more seasoned actors to work in their craft.

Susan Lambert Hatem: So, yeah, Glen Turman and Lou Myers were character actors who had worked and been amazing. But now onto the guest stars, there are so many.

Sharon Johnson: It was so hard trying to figure out.

Susan Lambert Hatem: And just when I thought I had finished the list, I'd come up with another episode. I'd be like, oh, wait, I'm. We forgot. What was fun about this show being set at a college is that there was every reason for huge real people to show up. Right?

Sharon Johnson: Yeah.

Susan Lambert Hatem: You have presidential candidates and politicians show up at your college. You have musical stars show up at your college. You have guest professors show up at your college. And so it was kind of a perfect setup for bringing in a round of, really amazing talent to be like, guess who's on the show this week? You've got your list. Yes, and I've got my list. And I think, we should start with you, and you should give us, like, you know, and again, these aren't in order, I guess, but they really are. I mean, come on, you have to give order to things. They don't necessarily mean that they have to stay in that order. We can move them around. And again, just the fact that they made the list exactly means they won.

Sharon Johnson: Okay, so these two, in my mind, for the purposes

00:20:00

Sharon Johnson: of this show, really go together because of the roles that they played. And I'm talking about Diane Carroll, who played Whitley's mother, and Patti LaBelle, who played Duane's mother. Now, Duane and Whitney come from two completely different socioeconomic backgrounds. Whitney was raised with a lot of money and culture, etcetera. Duane's family is very much middle class, and their mothers reflect that. And it's a perfect, storm when they meet, when they get together, because, of course, they both are very devoted parents to their children and aren't sure, frankly, that the other person's child is right for their child. So you've got that inherent conflict, if you will. But what I was not expecting was the level of comedy that they brought both of them. And the episodes that they're in, especially the episodes they're in together, are, for me, some of the funniest. Especially. Especially the episode for Thanksgiving when they first meet.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Double episode for Thanksgiving when they first meet.

Sharon Johnson: Oh, my gosh. obviously, different families have different ways of approaching Thanksgiving. Everybody does it a little differently, and, boy, do they do it differently. And it devolves into a food fight. It devolves into them getting arrested. I mean, and getting locked up. It's so hilarious. It's so amazing. And they are both so amazing in it.

Susan Lambert Hatem: I completely agree. This is where we agree. I totally agree with you because they're so good together. They're so good in their scenes with their child.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Right. I really love the Whitley mom relationship. Diane, Carroll plays Marian Hite Gilbert and has a whole journey. She's in several episodes, and a lot happens to her.

Susan Lambert Hatem: And to her and Whitley's relationship. And that is really, I love that. I love family stuff, and I love the evolution of that relationship, but I don't know that they were getting offered the kinds of roles that they should have been, and I think this basically reminded people how amazing they are.

Sharon Johnson: Well, Diane Carroll in particular has a long television history coming into this show. Patti LaBelle, on the other hand, did not. She was a singer. I don't know that she did much, if any, and certainly nothing this high profile as an actress before this. But boy, did she, boy, did she bring it, and boy, did she hold her own against Diane Carroll. It's really amazing, the two of them together.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Well, and Diane Carroll, you're right, has a huge television history, Julia, the 1968 television series, the first weekly series to star an african american woman. In this case, I think it really gives both of them just a chance to really shine. Like, you're just. They're amazing.

Sharon Johnson: Yeah.

Susan Lambert Hatem: You just want them. You want them to have their own show.

Sharon Johnson: Exactly. I would have watched that show. Oh, my gosh.

Susan Lambert Hatem: They should have the detective agency where they have to work together to solve crimes but also manage Thanksgiving dinner. It's so delightful because you have set up these characters in certain ways, and then this is the first time those characters are coming in after Whitley and, Duane have gotten married kind of impromptuly and to much of their family's chagrin. And that's just the perfect opportunity for comedy. And they're so good. And I love that when Whitney's mom shows up, she brings a fiance.

Sharon Johnson: Yes. Malik does.

Susan Lambert Hatem: She brings Malik, her young cuban boyfriend who is played by Nestor Carbonell, who, you know, would go on to do suddenly Susan, the Bates Motel, lost the dark knight, all of those things. You totally. You're like, oh, my God, it's that guy.

Sharon Johnson: He was just in Shogun, by the way.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Oh, there you go. It is that guy.

Susan Lambert Hatem: But this was early on. Yeah, he's 25, and I had to look it up. I was like, okay, how old is Diane Carroll in real life in this show? And she was 57.

Sharon Johnson: Good for her.

Susan Lambert Hatem: One, she looks amazing for 57. Amazing. Two, her boyfriend, which turned out to be a man, she hired an actor. But

00:25:00

Susan Lambert Hatem: you buy it up until that reveal comes and, is 25. And I was like, that is fantastic.

Sharon Johnson: Maybe there was, but I don't know that you saw, even though it turned out to be fake and somebody she hired, but even just somebody putting that out there on a tv show that this woman's dating this man who's 20 years younger than she is. And there were so many things I.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Loved about those episodes, and they were great and he was great and she was great. But Patti Labelle, come on. She's phenomenal.

Sharon Johnson: Oh, yeah. Yeah. You would not know that. She had very little on camera acting experience when she did this show.

Susan Lambert Hatem: And she was amazing.

Sharon Johnson: She's amazing. Yeah.

Susan Lambert Hatem: They really are number one and two. I mean, we haven't gone through the rest of the list, but since you put them one and two, and I kind of put them one and two, they're basically one and two.

Sharon Johnson: I couldn't agree more.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Now I think we're gonna get into it.

Sharon Johnson: That's okay.

Susan Lambert Hatem: But who knows?

Sharon Johnson: It's all good. They're all good.

Susan Lambert Hatem: So my next one, and again, these are in order, but they could, theyre all pretty close. But my next one was Whoopi Goldberg, season four, episode 23 if I should die before I wake. Its the AIDS episode that we talked about in other episodes. Also guest stars Tisha Campbell as a student, Josie. But, Whoopi Goldberg is playing basically a professor. Its a cameo professor role doctor Jordan. And she's teaching them how to speak. Right. It's a speaking class professional. What do we call that?

Sharon Johnson: Public speaking.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Public speaking. But there's also another word for it.

Sharon Johnson: Oration.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Yes. One of the reasons I put her there a, she's great. She's kind of at the height of her fame. Mm She's about to win an Oscar. And they talked about it on the View with Whoopi Goldberg, how basically she was the reason they felt they could get the network to say yes. They wanted to address AIDS. They knew they had to do something, and they knew they needed someone who the network couldn't deny and couldn't shut them down. And that was it. And it was highest rated episode of the year. And people went and got tested and it probably saved lives, that episode.

Sharon Johnson: Yeah, absolutely. She was great.

Susan Lambert Hatem: And she was great.

Sharon Johnson: And lending her clout to getting that episode on the air, getting it made, getting the network to agree to it. Good for her. That's awesome.

Susan Lambert Hatem: All right, so she's my next one. And then I have Josephine Primus, who is, we know, Susan fales Hill's mom. And I love that. I love that part of it again. Cause I'm a sucker for the mother daughter stuff. She played, the arthem auction lady.

Sharon Johnson: She's a big art buyer in season four.

Susan Lambert Hatem: that Whitley goes to work for and then gets in trouble and then gets out of trouble as things happen. And I thought she was. So I really enjoyed her character there. And then later she plays the landlord of Whitley and Duane.

Sharon Johnson: Right.

Susan Lambert Hatem: I think she's great. So those were my next two. Whoopi Goldberg and Josephine. Premise.

Sharon Johnson: Okey doke. My next two from season six, episode 23. Billy Dee Williams. He plays a former baseball player who didn't finish college. And some of the characters talk him into thinking about coming back to school. So now, I also have to say that Billie Dee is at his Billy Deistenhenne in this episode, which doesn't hurt, but he's great in it.

Susan Lambert Hatem: He's so good.

Sharon Johnson: He's so. Yeah, he's so great in it. And so he comes back, the kids asks the professor if this guy can come in and audit the class who's older and thinking about coming back to school. Well, it turns out. And she says yes. And it turns out that the professor and he used to date a long time ago.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Long time ago.

Sharon Johnson: And the professor was played by Leslie Ugams.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Oh, yeah. Another one on our list.

Sharon Johnson: Yes. So, I mean, and the two of them together are just setting the screen on fire. I just, I just.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Yeah, it's pretty great. Billy Dee Williams. And if you're not an eighties television aficionado, I gotta go tell you, eighties Billy Dee Williams is worth looking up and just watching. He is amazing. And he's amazing in this episode. And basically they're sort of seen when they first kind of reunite. Is her talking about feminism?

Susan Lambert Hatem: And so it ends up being about men and women. And he's clearly got a slightly different view. but it's kind of adorable.

Sharon Johnson: Yeah, it really is. It's really terrific.

Susan Lambert Hatem: And he's just, that is a man with so much charisma.

Sharon Johnson: No kidding, my lord. Yeah. I mean, I think a lot of people probably know him

00:30:00

Sharon Johnson: primarily from the Star wars movies that he was in.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Lando.

Sharon Johnson: Yeah, that's so funny. I was like, well, lady sings the blues.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Of course. Lady sings the blues. Well, he's pretty good at lady sings the blues.

Sharon Johnson: Yes, he is. But I think for a lot of people, he will always be Lando Calrissian. And as much as I enjoy the Star wars movies, he didn't get as much to do in them as the other characters, which is, you know, which is what happens. But, yeah, he's so great in this. And so that's my number. That's my number three.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Yeah. I love Billy Dee Williams, originally from Brian's song.

Sharon Johnson: Oh, God, yes. That's the first thing I think I ever saw.

Susan Lambert Hatem: It is the first 1971 tv movie based on the book I am third.

Sharon Johnson: Jimmy Cahn.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Yes. James Cahn. Billy Dee Williams playing football players. that book is heartbreaking, goes the movie. The movie is heartbreaking. They're adorable. They're adorable. But I remember reading that book.

Sharon Johnson: I'm sorry, what's the book title again?

Susan Lambert Hatem: It's called I am third. Okay. And at the beginning of the book, here's the reason it's called I am third. It was basically the Lord is first, my friends are second, and I am third. And, it was about the friendship, between Brian Piccolo and Gail Sayers, two football players. It's a real story.

Susan Lambert Hatem: But what I also remember from that book, other than it being a great book. So there are football players. Ultimately, one is stricken with terminal cancer, but the other one basically has his knee completely destroyed in a football. And they describe it and where he's planted his knee and then gets hit and it goes backwards. I will remember that description like it's a. Again, I read a lot of books as a kid. I was a big book reader, but that book has stayed with me. And that tv movie is. I feel like we got to rewatch it. We might have to do a patreon because it's not.

Sharon Johnson: Ooh, let's watch m it, Ladies.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Tv Ladies. I don't even think there's a woman in it. No, maybe there's a wife.

Sharon Johnson: Probably their wives show up. So when that movie. It's obviously a tv movie. My family was living in Japan at the time because my dad was in the air force. We didn't get much, if any, tv and English during the four years we were there. And somehow, some way, I don't remember how we got to see that show. We're huddled around this black and white tv in one of my sister's rooms. Cause maybe it was an antenna. It was the only way we could get a clear picture or something. That is the only time in my life that I think I ever saw my father cry.

Sharon Johnson: Oh, it's impossible not to cry at that movie when they bring in the song. yeah, only time, slow motion.

Sharon Johnson: He got a tear in his eye. I don't. That's one and only time. Yeah.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Billy Dee Williams, major dad cried. Of course he did.

Sharon Johnson: I think that was one of the first, like, movies of the week. That was definitely.

Susan Lambert Hatem: It was certainly the one the way we remember, like, where it just. It just was huge, huge, huge change. Yeah. All right, well, that's a season six, episode 23. I highly recommend it. It's called college kid because he also. And his character name is great. Langston Page, a former baseball player who never finished college. Perfect. It's perfect. All right, who's next?

Sharon Johnson: So next is Debbie Morgan. Many people, probably listeners of this podcast, may remember that they first noticed or saw Debbie Morgan on all my children. She played a character named Angie who fell for a bad boy who turned out to be the love of her life. She was studying to be a doctor, and of course, her parents were not happy about their wonderful daughter getting involved with this hoodlum. In any event, one of the all time favorite love stories of all my children fans. And probably the thing that put Debbie Morgan on the map. I don't know that I watched it the whole time she was on there. Do remember her? And I remember I was watching it during some of the times when they were on the show, and she was awesome. She was great. So when her name popped up as one of the guest stars on this show, I thought, well, I have to go back and watch this. And I just loved her character. She plays, another student at Hillman College who is more on Duane's intellectual and interest level than Whitley is. Whitley and Duane are very different people in terms of what their interests are. She's very art oriented, science oriented, and Debbie's character is someone that Dwayne can talk to about the things science related. Her name is Lisa. That interest him. This is also at a point in their relationship when they're getting ready to get married. But things are not exactly really great. They're just a little kind of off, out of sync. Yeah, perhaps. And so he finds himself going out to dinner

00:35:00

Sharon Johnson: with Lisa, just the two of them, and it causes him to be a little uncertain about where he and Whitley are and whether they're doing the right thing to get married. Needless to say, that causes all kinds of issues in the show and the story going forward. But I loved Debbie Morgan in that role, she was not your typical, you know, homewrecker kind of the woman. Exactly. She, you know, their connection was intellectual. There seemed to be maybe the possibility that in other circumstances it could be more. But there wasn't anything where she was kind of deliberately going after him, trying to interfere in this relationship. The relationship already had issues and her presence just sort of brought them more to the fore, I think, in Duane's mind. But I just thought she played it wonderfully. Played it brilliantly. So that's why she's on my list.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Well, and it's so interesting. I love that. And it's interesting because I was at a certain point in later seasons for a second I was like, wait, is this an eighties Ladies show? It started as it, because it started centered around Denise huxtable and then it sort of shifted and it was in many ways about Whitley and then the roommates that were sort of left. But then a lot of guys come in and it becomes kind of a Whitley Duane show with surrounding characters.

Susan Lambert Hatem: So I'm curious if it's truly a Ladies driven television show by the end of the show.

Sharon Johnson: You know, I would have to say I, certainly think a case could be made for either way. But one of the things they did really well, I think in terms of the female characters, whether they be the regular characters or the recurring characters or the guest characters, is you got to see a lot of different kinds of women in terms of intellectual level, interest level, professional level. And that's to me where the case could be made that this is an eighties Ladies show because if you're watching this, you're seeing a lot of different kinds of Ladies. But when you combine not just what we see on screen, but what is happening off screen, I think it's absolutely an 80s TV lady show. Let's start with the incomparable Debbie Allen. Not only did she come on as a producer director, she directed 83 episodes of the show. She was responsible for steering the show for the last five seasons in a way that has made it the cultural touchstone that it is today. In addition of the 144 episodes, 104 of them were directed by women. Ellen Gitelson directed 1580s tv Ladies guest Nima Barnett directed seven, Kim Friedman directed two, and Jasmine Guy directed one, as well as writing episodes as well. Jasmine Guy, I mean, and then of course you have head writer Susan Fales Hill, who was with the show from the beginning, who steered the writing staff. So when you look at the credits of this show and you see all the women who had a part in making this show what it became. It is absolutely an 80s TV Ladies show, in my opinion.

Susan Lambert Hatem: In my mind, I was like, of course, a, different world is part of 80s TV Ladies. As I was watching it, there were several episodes in the middle that I was like, oh, maybe in this middle part it's not as much, but then it kind of swings back. But I think it is. I do think it is ultimately. But it is sort of interesting because it becomes a relationship show.

Sharon Johnson: Yes.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Yeah. it really does.

Sharon Johnson: Which makes sense for a college show. Cause that's kind of, people are trying.

Susan Lambert Hatem: To figure out their relationships exactly. And their friendships and their romantic relationships and where those ebb and flow. But I love that it is about everyone in the show trying to figure out how to drive their story. That's what it feels like. It is about light skin, dark skin, rich, poor, male, female.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Like what college should be is figuring out what you want and how to achieve it. And that is what this show seems to be about. In addition to the funny, in addition to all the issues.

Susan Lambert Hatem: And the soap opera relationship stuff, that's what I really felt the show delivered was that college is a time to explore

00:40:00

Susan Lambert Hatem: and discover yourself. And I think that's one of the appealing things about it. You're like, you want to watch these characters grow up. You want to watch these guest characters come in and teach a valuable lesson or learn a valuable lesson.

Sharon Johnson: Right.

Susan Lambert Hatem: And so I think that is such a part of this show. And I think it's another reason why I think the guest stars really shine and because everyone kind of has their story and their story is important. And I think it's one of the reasons I like the AIDS episode. Not just because it talks about AIDS and not, just because it addresses something really important at the time and is very eighties television in that way. It is relating information, making sure people get some information they might not have and are able to take action, they might not have thought to take action about. But it also is, what's your story like? It all starts because the professor is like, do your eulogy, tell your story of your life in your twenties? Which is a hard thing to do. I mean, like, that would be an amazing assignment. Right? But anyway, I think that that's sort of interesting. And I think the to tell the truth episode has some of that too. The Debbie Morgane.

Susan Lambert Hatem: I don't know, it just sort of, I'm realizing that again, looking at my list, it's very female driven, not completely and I'm wondering if the rest of yours is. So do you have. So that's your three, four.

Sharon Johnson: That's right. So I cheated a little with number five, mainly because I am such a fan of Jennifer Lewis, and I did not know that she was in this show until we started looking into it and watching it. And she plays two characters on this show. She first shows up in season four, episode six, where she's a professor, and then she comes back in season six as the dean. And I do love her name. Her character's name is the dean. Her character's name is Dean. Dorothy Dandridge Davidson. Not only is that a lot of alliteration, but the fact that, she was named after Dorothy Dandridge, I think is just fantastic. And she appears in eight episodes in season six, in that role, most notably in the Gladys Knight episode, which we talk about later. I misspoke. Jennifer Lewis is in the Lena Horn episode?

Susan Lambert Hatem: Yes, the Lena Horn episode. I didn't think she was in season six.

Sharon Johnson: She's in the Lena Horn episode in season six.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Not Lena Horne was on my honorable mention, so.

Sharon Johnson: Yeah, but, yeah, that Gladys Knight episode is a great one as well.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Well, interestingly enough, Gladys Knight is my number five.

Sharon Johnson: Wow.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Season two, episode five, I love that episode. It's sort of, for me where season two really starts to take off. And again, I jumped around, so it's hard to get the full trajectory of a straight watch through, which I haven't done.

Susan Lambert Hatem: But I think it's where Debbie Allen's like, oh, oh, I'm gonna put all the music, all the wear anywhere I want. Let's get Gladys Knight in. And they bring Gladys knight in. And again, it makes sense. It's like, oh, Gladys Knight's coming to perform and they're gonna put two students in the show, and Whitley and Jalisa team up to audition, and they bring in a third, and then chaos happens. Right. And they don't get it, but they get to dream about singing with Gladys. And they sing love overboard, which was her hit from 1987. This is 1988. And they do this in the show. And I love this. I love Gladys knight in it. I love that. It's such an eighties guest star moment.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Right. It's bringing in a musical star and then doing several musical numbers, and you finally get Gladys Knight. You get Gladys Knight in a scene and then you get her singing. And for a while you think you might not get her singing because they don't make the show. And it felt like so perfect for this show, for Debbie Allen and, you know, her musical background and her choreography background, and I was like, yeah. And I think that the show continued to do that.

Susan Lambert Hatem: There's tons of music, there's tons of choreography in the show. And I, as a musical theater fan, love that. So I had to pick Gladys Knight from that episode.

Sharon Johnson: What a great pick. I mean, Gladys Knight is on my honorable mention list because she was great in it. I was thrilled in watching it to see that they did the whole number for love overboard. It wasn't just a clip of it. They did the whole song. And I love that song, which helps, of course. And then both Don Lewis and Jasmine guy got to show their stuff in terms of doing the choreography, you know, I loved it. Yeah.

Susan Lambert Hatem: I was like, oh, I need these Ladies singing all the time and dancing. And there's so

00:45:00

Susan Lambert Hatem: much of that in the show that it's always delightful when it shows up. I realized again, when I was sort of watching for something else, and suddenly there's the episode where Crisscross, the hip hop group, is in. I was like, what are these kids coming in? Who are these kids that are in this, that are playing? Kind of the kids on the edge, the kids that are going back into the system, if they don't straighten up and fly right. And so they bring them to Hillman and pair them with professors. And of course, these two kids who want to fight and kill each other and run with gangs are given to Dwayne, and he's trying to figure out how to reach them. And ultimately, somehow, they suddenly decide to start rapping about things. Even before they started singing, I was like, who are these kids? They look familiar, and they're crisscross. Who had the huge, like, jump? They were huge, and they were 14 at the time they did this. It was crazy. I was like, oh, they have Gladys knight to crisscross on this show. All right, I. My six is an odd choice for me. But again, I love the episode so much. I felt it was so timely to then and now, and it felt like a really good, different world episode, even though it was very guy centered. This is when I was like, wait, I'm picking a guy episode. And it's season two, episode 21. Citizen Wayne and Duane is running for student council president while Reverend Jesse Jackson is visiting the college. And it becomes all about should he run on the issues that he cares about and why does anything matter? And, also about the importance of voting. And then Reverend Jackson gives an amazing speech at the end, you know, about why you should care about your civic duty and the desire to change things. And make a better world. I loved it. So I'm picking Jesse Jackson, which I would not have thought when I started that I was going to pick. But I also, I love that several times through this show they talk about the importance of voting. At least three episodes that I remember, but this one is very much a call to action.

Susan Lambert Hatem: And I really appreciate it. Even though there's very few women in.

Sharon Johnson: This particular episode, interestingly enough, the reason I left him off of my list is for that very reason, there wasn't enough female presence for me. As great as I think this episode is, and it is terrific. And Jesse Jackson, surprisingly to me was also really good.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Pretty good. Yeah, it was pretty good. I mean, I think politicians are always weird, for the most part in particularly from the seventies, eighties and nineties. They appear very oddly when they're put into situations like sitcoms and television bits. But I do think he came off really well. And I think it felt like of course Reverend Jesse Jackson would go to Hillman and do a talk and meet with kids that were running for student council. Like, it just felt like it was speaking to the HBCU experience.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Directly. So I gave it a pass for not being focused on women.

Sharon Johnson: Now having said that, Duane's opponent in this episode, running for student body president, Candy Alexander.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Yes.

Sharon Johnson: Who not only was one of the regulars on the first few seasons of news radio, she played Olivia Pope's mother in scandal. And of course Joe Morton, who recurred on this show, played her father. What?

Susan Lambert Hatem: So that is coming full circle now.

Sharon Johnson: I love it.

Susan Lambert Hatem: And she's a big dancer and choreographers. That was really fun.

Sharon Johnson: I didn't know she was a dancer. Then she broke out that dance and kicked her leg practically over her head and I went, oh my God, I had no idea.

Susan Lambert Hatem: I had no idea. I think in order to work on, like basically you had to impress Debbie Allen. So you better be able to, you better be able to dance.

Sharon Johnson: Yeah. That was really, really, really a fun episode. Really a great episode with a surprisingly good turn by Jesse Jackson. And of course, not to minimize the message, if you will, of the episode, which for both of us is very important, people need a vote.

Susan Lambert Hatem: From the 80s TV Ladies perspective, the evolution of Whitley as a character.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Because she sort of takes over that. A little bit of a Denise huxtable role, which I think they probably would have continued going with. Denise Huxtable was very huge star on the Cosby show. You know, she was fashionable, she was breakout in a lot of ways, but they also, what was interesting about it, she wasn't a great student.

Sharon Johnson: Right.

Susan Lambert Hatem: And so she gets to Hillman and she struggles. And I thought that was really good. She ends up struggling with too many things and it's sort of like she's sort

00:50:00

Susan Lambert Hatem: of all over the map. I don't think they really honed in on what exactly they were going to do with her. But at the same time, I think the idea that she'd also evolve into a person who cares a little bit more deeply about the world around her was interesting. And so when she left and Whitley kind of came forward, they did that with her.

Susan Lambert Hatem: So that was an interesting travel for that character. An interesting journey from the sort of, again, the southern belle princess raised with privilege and thinking that that made her as a character, often in the early episode she felt above people. She felt somewhat like racism couldn't really touch her.

Susan Lambert Hatem: And over the course of the six seasons evolves into a person who's very civic minded, who's much more thoughtful, always been intelligent, but in a different way, and ends up sort of getting what she wants. It's not exactly what she thought she wanted at the beginning of the show. And I always think that's lovely. But I also love that, like in the later episodes, I think it's in the,

Sharon Johnson: La riot on their honeymoon.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Yeah, on their honeymoon. And, it's an episode that doesn't really work. I think Susan Vails Hill is correct.

Sharon Johnson: She was right. She was correct about that.

Susan Lambert Hatem: But it's pretty interesting. There's a lot of guest stars. Roseanne and Tom Arnold show up in that episode. Speaking of wacky guest star moments, as well as Gilbert Godfrey.

Sharon Johnson: Gilbert Godfrey.

Sharon Johnson: La riot.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Yeah. And that's where I think it's just all over the map. It's all over the map in terms of tone.

Susan Lambert Hatem: But what was interesting is they were back at college telling this story and she's talking about voting and the importance of voting. And again, that's the second episode out of several that are really pushing this idea of civic action for young people, which is not a message that was happening a lot in the eighties.

Sharon Johnson: It's not happening a lot at all.

Susan Lambert Hatem: And so that's why I was like, those episodes really resonate. It's like, oh yeah, it can be easy to be mad about stuff. I'm thinking of the protests that they do with the radio free Hillman.

Sharon Johnson: But getting back to Whitley for a second, I hadn't really thought about it in the greater context, but as the show went on and her evolution, I think, is so interesting, she'd never really lost her witliness.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Yeah.

Sharon Johnson: You know, she didn't turn into a new person, but what she did is she turned into a deeper person with more layers and more to her than just this focus on her appearance and her stature.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Yeah.

Sharon Johnson: She was more thoughtful, but she was still Whitley.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Yes.

Sharon Johnson: They never turned her into somebody else.

Susan Lambert Hatem: So she matured.

Sharon Johnson: Yes.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Let's hear your number six.

Sharon Johnson: My number six was Tisha Campbell from the episode if I should die before I wake. The Whoopi Goldberg episode, you focused on her, and I was all about Tisha.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Campbell, and she's amazing in the episode. It is her episode more than it's Whoopi Goldberg's episode for sure. And now she was in another episode, though.

Sharon Johnson: She was. She was in another episode.

Susan Lambert Hatem: She was introduced as a character before, right.

Sharon Johnson: But not really. She just. People don't just know her, but don't know anything about her. She's working at the pit. People are like, oh, she's always in a bad mood or what's wrong with her, or something like that. And then we find out this was still a time when I don't know if they were just beginning to talk about AIDS being transmitted to women, when it really had been seen at the beginning, certainly as a gay men disease, certainly not a heterosexual disease, and certainly not something that could eventually make its way to women. And I love the fact that they talked about that. In terms of if they're going to talk about AIDS, I'm really glad they talked about that, talked about that context as well. And as you said, she was great. She really hit it out of the park. I thought.

Susan Lambert Hatem: So. We gotta narrow it down. But before we narrow it down, maybe we take a break.

Sharon Johnson: Okay.

Susan Lambert Hatem: And then we'll narrow it down.

Sharon Johnson: Okay, sounds good. We'll be right back. Susan, we gotta tell our listeners about our new sponsor for 80s TV, Ladies. A podcast called grits with a side of murder. It's about amazing true crime stories with a dash of humor and a splash of alcohol.

Susan Lambert Hatem: I am a secret fan of true crime. Can't listen all the time because they freak me out, but I always get drawn in. I am such a sucker for a good story. The title alone on this one makes me happy. Grits

00:55:00

Susan Lambert Hatem: with the side of murder.

Sharon Johnson: So take a listen to their trailer and check them out. The link is in our description.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Are you a true crime fan? A true crime lover? And you're searching for a new podcast to binge. Then you need to check out grits with a side of murder. The hostess, tammy, and she has a plethora of crazy co hosts that join in with a dash of humor and a splash of alcohol. This is the kind of stuff you can only get from south Louisiana. And just because we're from south Louisiana, that doesn't mean that those are the only crimes we talk about. We cover crimes worldwide. So check grits out on any of the platforms where you listen to your podcasts or go to the website gritswithocidofmurdereze. Now tell your mom and them we said hey and go listen to grits with a side of murder.

Susan Lambert Hatem: And we're back. Okay, I think we have to narrow it down to the top ten. So we have to take away two.

Sharon Johnson: Okay.

Susan Lambert Hatem: So obviously, Diane, Carol, and Patty. The bell were not taking out. No, no, they're untouched.

Sharon Johnson: They have the.

Susan Lambert Hatem: What is the, survivor pass. They have the immunity, item. They have immunity. Diane, Carol, and patti lubelle. All right, so you get to eliminate one from my list. Whoopi Goldberg. Josephine premise. Gladys knight. Jesse Jackson.

Sharon Johnson: I'm going with Jesse Jackson.

Susan Lambert Hatem: I will allow it.

Sharon Johnson: Mainly because we are an 80s TV Ladies podcast. This is a very male centric episode. There's nothing about the quality episode. I think he's great in it, but I gotta pick one, so I'm picking that one.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Awesome. Okay. I will allow it.

Susan Lambert Hatem: I guess you have veto power. Cause I would have pulled veto somebody else. All right, so your list.

Sharon Johnson: Diane Carroll and Patti LaBelle. Billy Dee Williams, Debbie Morgan, Jennifer Lewis and Tisha Campbell.

Susan Lambert Hatem: I'm gonna say Billy Dee Williams.

Sharon Johnson: I was gonna say, don't go touching on Billie Dee.

Sharon Johnson: You did it.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Billie D was my honorary, but at the same time, I think for the same reasons.

Sharon Johnson: Yeah, okay, we're 80s TV Ladies.

Susan Lambert Hatem: We're 80s TV Ladies. But also, he was doing Billy Dee Williams. His name might have been Langston Page, former, baseball player, but he was walking in as Billy Dee Williams.

Sharon Johnson: Now, was it a big stretch for him? Is that what you're saying?

Susan Lambert Hatem: To be fair, so was Jesse Jackson, but it was written as Jesse Jackson. He wasn't playing a character. You know, I will actually say, I.

Sharon Johnson: Think in some ways, Jesse Jackson did more with his role.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Yes.

Sharon Johnson: And I'm not just talking about the speech that he does at the end. I'm talking about the conversation in the living room and how relaxed and natural he is. I mean, listen. But in any event, I'm good with both of our choices.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Okay, so our final list, the top ten.

Sharon Johnson: One and two, Diane Carroll and Patti Labelle.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Number three.

Sharon Johnson: Let's go Whoopi Goldberg.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Whoopi Goldberg. Okay. Number four, Debbie Morgan.

Sharon Johnson: No, I go Gladys Knight. Gladys. I go Gladys Knight.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Ok, Gladys Knight.

Sharon Johnson: I'll go Tisha Campbell after Gladys Knight.

Susan Lambert Hatem: All right, well, then I'm going to do Josephine premise.

Sharon Johnson: Okay.

Susan Lambert Hatem: And then Jennifer Lewis.

Sharon Johnson: Okay. And Debbie Morgan.

Susan Lambert Hatem: And then Debbie Morgan. So that's the ten.

Sharon Johnson: Okay.

Susan Lambert Hatem: All right. But we left off Lena Horn and the weighans. We didn't even talk about the weigh ins.

Sharon Johnson: No, we didn't, but that's okay.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Keenan, Damon, and Kim are all in there.

Sharon Johnson: They are all in the same episode.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Season one, episode five.

Sharon Johnson: But she recurs in the first season.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Got it.

Sharon Johnson: But they don't. The men don't.

Susan Lambert Hatem: And we didn't even talk about Halle Berry. Season four, episode 15. She's one of several dates that Ron is having. She's stunning looking. She doesn't have a lot to do.

Susan Lambert Hatem: But this is her year. It's 1991, and Halle Berry's about to become Halle Berry, like within a year of doing this show. It's like the fourth tv show she does in 1991 or something. She's being shot out of a cannon. There's also in this show, if you guys look further, there's Orlando Jones, Tupac Shakur, who?

Sharon Johnson: Orlando Jones, who also was a writer on this show. What I know, I started seeing his. Unless there's another Orlando Jones out there.

Susan Lambert Hatem: So funny. Cause all I'm doing is looking for women's names.

Sharon Johnson: Yeah. Cause his name kept popping up. Story editor, writer here. And, I just was like, whoa, wow, I had no idea.

Susan Lambert Hatem: He's a comedian, so that makes sense in many ways. And then he went on to work on the Sinbad show. That's funny. As a writer and probably, I assume as an actor, you know, I don't.

Sharon Johnson: Think I ever watched this in bad show, so I don't know.

Susan Lambert Hatem: It's so funny. Oh, my God, I love that. Yeah. So there's a lot we didn't even touch on Raven Symone I didn't include because she basically was in the Cosby show.

Sharon Johnson: Yeah.

Susan Lambert Hatem: And then there's a crossover, you know, deep in there so that there can be some wrap up between Duane and Denise.

01:00:00

Susan Lambert Hatem: But she's playing three year old Denise Huxtable's stepdaughter, who is adorable. She looks like Raven Simone. Sometimes you see a three year old or a four year old, whatever age she is. And you're like, well, that doesn't look it, but it's literally raven Symone. Little, tiny baby raven symone. it's adorable. I didn't know she'd done the Cosby show. I kind of, lost track of the Cosby show point. And so that was a huge surprise that she was in a different world. And I went, oh, wait. And then she was in the Cosby show. I knew she had been a child actor. I guess I just didn't know that. The Cosby?

Sharon Johnson: Yeah, I watched it till the very end. The Cosby show. I mean, that was definitely still something I was watching. And I remember when she came on board in all of her cuteness, because they needed to replace Keisha knight Pulliam, whose Rudy was the cute one. And now she's in middle of grade school or something and getting ready to turn into a teenager, et cetera, et cetera.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Oh, women get too old too fast.

Sharon Johnson: Even in grade school or preschool.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Bring in more cute girls. Okay, that's getting creepy. All right, I hear it.

Sharon Johnson: Anyway, as you were mentioning, some of the other people who guest starred, Eric Lasalle was in the show, aforementioned. Gilbert Gottfried, Robert Guillaume. Yes, Robert Guillaume was awesome. And I did mention Joe Morton again. He was in a number of episodes and was engaged to Whitley for a while before, Duane. I'm just gonna give it all away here. Duane stopped the wedding. Yes.

Susan Lambert Hatem: He does a yes. I have something to say. I love you. Come marry me. That's always exciting on a television show and something you do not want to experience in real life. It would not work. And I think we have to do an honorable mention for Lena Horne.

Sharon Johnson: Oh, of course.

Susan Lambert Hatem: She also would have been there.

Sharon Johnson: Yeah.

Susan Lambert Hatem: In fact, I might have to put her above Jesse Jackson, now that I think about it.

Sharon Johnson: But okay.

Susan Lambert Hatem: You know, now that he's been kicked off the list, 80s TV Ladies, listeners, who would be on your list of your favorite guest stars from a different world? What do you think of our list? Who would be your top ten or your top six? Because top ten is big. I think you have to narrow it down to top six, and then you have to find a friend, do your top six, do exactly what we did, and then cut out two.

Sharon Johnson: We would love to hear your thoughts about this m in today's audiography. Find out more about a different world college tour 2024 at adwtour.com. read about Whoopi Goldberg and the different world AIDS episode at hollywoodreporter. And there'll be a link to that article in our show notes and you.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Can read a great oral history of a different world at, Vanity Fair. The link will be in our description.

Sharon Johnson: We so appreciate your feedback. So if you're liking the show, have some thoughts you'd like to share. Please leave us a rating and review on Apple Podcasts or on Spotify and mention what shows or Ladies you want us to cover. Find us at 80s TV Ladies. Well, that's a wrap for now on our series of episodes about a different world.

Susan Lambert Hatem: And Sharon, I'm a little bit sad because I think it's also a wrap on season two. This has been the longest season of our lives. We've had like 38 episodes. I think we've kind of lost our mind. But. But we've also had such a great time. I am so glad. It's because we threw moonlighting in unexpectedly that we kind of went over. I wanted to do 23 because that's what a typical eighties television show would do and then they'd take a break for the summer. So I think we might do that. We didn't really take a break between season one and two. We have been going really hard to bring you all these shows and I think we're gonna need to take a break. It's also making me Sadeena.

Sharon Johnson: Well, it makes me a little sad too. But considering how hard we've been going this year, not only the gift that was moonlighting, that literally fell into our laps, but also the gift of the tv movie latest of the eighties, a, Diva's Christmas. It fell out of the sky, neither of which we were expecting or planning for. But of course we had to do them. How could we not? And they both were fantastic as well as every other interview and person we've had the privilege of talking to and all the shows we've covered. But yeah, it's been a lot. It's been a lot, a lot.

Susan Lambert Hatem: But we are going to be planning for season three.

Sharon Johnson: So, yeah, so we're going to take a little break. But, we will be posting

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Sharon Johnson: some rerun episodes before sometime in late summer, early September about. We will post a sneak peek of season three.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Woo hoo.

Sharon Johnson: We thought season three should start maybe in September this time around because that's when 80s TV used to start their new seasons.

Susan Lambert Hatem: So you're just gonna have to wait like it's 1985. And we're going to be providing some content on Patreon over the summer. So if you feel like you're not getting enough new 80s TV Ladies. You could become a patron and check out the content there.

Sharon Johnson: That's a great idea. Excellent.

Susan Lambert Hatem: I'm working on an indie television pilot, which is unusual for me because I do mostly theater, but I do do film and television as well. This is an indie pilot. It is called Famous Lake Park. A puppet animation pilot. It's adorable. I have to say. The puppets are turning out adorable. I'm working with this incredible team, Penn Productions. I'm co directing. And if you want to check it out, you can go to tinyurl.com, famous Lakepark. There is also a famous Lake Park Facebook page. All right, we're going to miss you. I can't even sign off.

Sharon Johnson: Make me, Sadeena.

Susan Lambert Hatem: All right, reach out, don't be strangers, and, we'll be amazing Ladies of the summer of 2024.

Sharon Johnson: Yeah, have a great summer, everyone.

Sharon Johnson: Eighties TV Ladies is presented by 134 west and Summerlin Entertainment and part of the Weirding Way Media network. Produced by Richard Hatem, Susan Lambert Hatem and Melissa Robbin. Hosted by Susan Lambert Hatem and Sharon Johnson. Theme song and parody songs are by Amy Englehart. Find her@amienglehart.com our sound engineer and editor is Kevin Ducey and associate producer is Sergio Perez.

Sharon Johnson: As always, we hope 80s TV Ladies brings you joy and laughter and lots of fun, fabulous new and old shows to watch, all of which will lead us forward toward being amazing Ladies of the 21st century. Thanks for listening.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Through the city working hard for the money in a man's world. 86 Ladies.

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