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Does A Different World Need a Reboot? | 90s TV Babies

Melissa Roth: Weirding Way Media

[Singing] Amy Englehardt: 80s TV Ladies, So sexy and so pretty. 80s TV Ladies, Steppin’ out into the city. 80s TV Ladies, often treated kind of sh-[wolf whistle]. Working hard for the money in a man’s world. 80s TV Ladies!

Melissa Roth: Welcome to eighties TV ladies, with your fabulous hosts, Sharon Johnson and Susan Lambert Hatem.

Sharon Johnson: Hey there, I'm Sharon.

Susan Lambert Hatem: And I'm Susan.

Sharon Johnson: It has been a real pleasure, to say the least, to examine A Different World through a different, say, modern lens. For me, I think the show has been surprising to look at for a lot of reasons. First of all, I'm not a huge fan. Never have been of, shows about families and teenagers. And this show proves the exception to the rule. Even 30 plus years on, it's really just an amazing show. Amazing writing, amazing performances, and I can't say enough good things about it.

Susan Lambert Hatem: I agree, Sharon. I'm often a little skeptical when we start to look at these shows. They're so fond in my memory that I'm afraid when I look at them, they won't be as fond anymore and they might age poorly. But for a different world, this show, I think ages even better. The big stars and the young stars, it's just filled with those, oh my God. Look at that. That person's in there. Tupac Shakur?! What?  

It really is a very unique sitcom for its time and for now.

Sharon Johnson: Yeah, I couldn't agree more. And I think it's in some ways very timeless. It really struck me as how even today, so many of the themes and the stories were as important today as they were at the time. But as always, it's good to get another perspective from another generation.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Yes, indeed, it's time to bring back the 90s TV Babies. Our awesome friends who were all born in the 90s to watch these shows for the first time and tell us what they think. Serita Fontanesi is a podcaster, a content creator, and a training facilitator in diverse progressive sectors and electoral politics. She lives in Austin, Texas.

Sharon Johnson: Sergio Perez is an actor, director and playwright who lives in Los Angeles. He also works with us on eighties TV ladies.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Megan Ruble is an actress, singer and all-around amazing person who lives in the San Fernando Valley. They are all fabulous, adorable, thoughtful and brilliant.

Sharon Johnson: Please welcome back to eighties TV ladies, the absolutely fabulous 90s TV Babies. Welcome back, guys.

Serita Fontanesi: Hello. Hi.

Sharon Johnson: Hi.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Welcome back, guys. I'm so excited. It always makes me so happy when I know we're doing a 90s TV Babies, because I get to see you all and I don't get to see you on a regular basis, even you, Sergio, because now you guys all have big summer plans. Sergio, what are you doing here?

Sergio Perez: Tell me first.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Yeah.

Sergio Perez: so I have been in the deep of rehearsals for Occidental children's theater, and this year's show is called CinderAlice in Wonderland. So we are actually, tomorrow, going to be watching both Alice in Wonderland and Cinderella, to figure out what the hell we're going to do, because that's always the process. Okay. We have these mashups, and now we're going to watch the original material and make a story out of it, and it's going to work. Right. Then we get right up to the wire, and it somehow does each time.

Susan Lambert Hatem: They're always so delightful. It's very physical. What, kind of theater is it?

Sergio Perez: I think, acrobatic theater troupe is like, the title. Yeah. Very physical. No sets, no props, no costumes, just bodies and everybody working together, and it's super, super fun.

Susan Lambert Hatem: I'm super excited for this year. All right, Megan.

Megan Ruble: Hi.

Susan Lambert Hatem: What are you doing this summer?

Megan Ruble: Oh, my goodness. I am producing a fringe show that is going very well. I am doing Shakespeare by the sea this summer as a performer, and so doing two shows in rep throughout the summer. we opened one this weekend, we'll open another next weekend, and then they'll run and rep throughout July and August.

Susan Lambert Hatem: That is amazing. Okay. I can't wait to see these shows. It sounds like a very busy time, though, producing a show and acting in two shows.

Megan Ruble: Yeah, gratefully. It's the opposite sides of my brain, though, right? So one is, like, logistics and marketing and all of that stuff, side of things, and then I get to go be creative and put my phone down and play. And also,

00:05:00

Megan Ruble: this sounds maybe like hell to other people, but I was actually really excited by it, although now I am very exhausted, because we tour and because of the nature of the show, the actors build and take down the set every single day. And, like, I weirdly love physical labor, so I'm very excited by it, but I. I'm also very tired. But it's like a good transition moment of, like, okay, this is what I'm doing now. I'm in this space. I'm using my body, I'm using my voice, not using that side of my brain.

Serita Fontanesi: That is so cool.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Serita, what are you doing this summer?

Serita Fontanesi: I am traveling a lot for work this summer. In July alone, I'm going to Baltimore to. I'm speaking on a panel at netroots about the enthusiasm gap amongst young voters. So if anyone's interested in that, it will be streamed. So it'll be available in person and digitally. Then I'll be in Atlanta for a few days. Our is putting on a leadership summit for young people who want to be leaders and advocates in the reproductive justice space. We're doing, a week long training, with them. Everybody's convening in Atlanta, so I'll be facilitating a session on repro in Texas. And just like voter engagement 101, how do you do relational organizing and phone banking and those types of things? And then I'll be in DC at the end of July for our staff retreat. And then I've got a bunch of more travel coming up in the fall because it's an election year.

At some point in the middle of that, I'm going to record season three of my podcast, the not ugly pod, because apparently I don't need to sleep. I need to spend all my time doing something and then trying to get pregnant. Like, that has become my personality. so I feel like it's important to say for anyone who has actively tried to get pregnant, it is all consuming and all you can think about and all you talk about, and again, it has really become my personality. I'm learning all kinds of acronyms I never knew about. Also, nobody told me that trying to get pregnant involved so much pee. There's a lot involved, but, you know, and that was startling to me. And maybe that's how they prepare you for, like, changing diapers. It's very different. So that's me and my summer.

Sharon Johnson: That's a lot, to say the least.

Susan Lambert Hatem: That is a lot. And I'm wishing you great success on all of it.

Serita Fontanesi: Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you. I also. We're gonna try to come out to LA before the election, so I'll keep everyone posted.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Please. We'll do a little party. Maybe we'll do a little 80s TV Ladies/90s TV Babies party. Okay.

Serita Fontanesi: all right.

Sharon Johnson: I think we have to.

Susan Lambert Hatem: You know, it's so funny because when rich and I were trying to get pregnant 1001 years ago, he was traveling a lot because he was doing a show. And so I literally flew out to meet him because it was like, well, or we'll lose a whole month.

Serita Fontanesi: That's the wild thing. There are like three to five days a month, and if you miss that window, a whole month has been shot. And it's bonkers. I just think high school sex ed in so many ways really let us down.

Susan Lambert Hatem: It actually is pretty hard to get.

Serita Fontanesi: Pregnant when you watch shockingly.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Yeah, sometimes. And then other times, apparently not hard. At all.

Serita Fontanesi: It's a real crapshoot.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Well, I'm very excited you're going to Atlanta. You know, I love Atlanta and everything about Atlanta. And, I love that you're going to help get out the vote and the young people and reproductive rights. Go. Yes. Fight.

Megan Ruble: All right.

Sharon Johnson: So we asked you to watch four episodes. Of course, you could watch as many as you wanted, but we gave you four. Season one, episode one, the pilot. Season two, episode one, doctor War is hell. Thought it would be a good idea to give you a chance to see the transition from kind of what the show began as and then what it was beginning to evolve in. In season two, and then another season two episode called no means no. And then from season six, two episodes, actually. But it's all actually kind of one story. It's called faith, hope, and charity. parts one and two, where we meet Dwayne and Whitley's parents, their mothers in particular, happen to be my favorite episodes. But can't wait to hear what you think about all that.

Susan Lambert Hatem: I'm very curious of what you know of this show before we started. Serita, I already know I'm gonna start with you, because we talked about this show, like, I think, during Bend in the road, like, way in the before times.

Serita Fontanesi: Yeah, I mean, that

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Serita Fontanesi: sounds right, because I have watched a, different world start to finish multiple times. Like, at this point, it's sort of, like every couple years, I put it back on. So I'm sure I was rewatching it during Bend in the road. Obviously, I was not. I didn't watch it in real time. I was born in 1990, but it was freshly syndicated when I was a kid. So whenever it was randomly on, my mom would be watching it because she was like, oh, yeah, that show. Right. And I would watch it with her.

Serita Fontanesi: And it is legit, like, a very funny and brilliant show. And also, it was one of my introductions to Black TV, so it is no surprise I'm a huge fan of a, different world. And, I'm so excited to talk about it.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Megan.

Megan Ruble: I knew absolutely nothing, not a single thing.

Susan Lambert Hatem: I love it. We're running the gamut. Sergio.

Sergio Perez: Before we started, like, even thinking about putting it on the podcast, I didn't know anything about it. and the secret is that I have now watched two seasons of it. I've already gotten all the way through season two. So, hell, yeah. Yeah. That's where I'm at. But if we're talking, like, before any of this, then nothing.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Now, I'm also curious if you guys knew of and watched the Cosby show?

Serita Fontanesi: I definitely knew of it. We were not a Cosby family, other than just sort of knowing its importance of, like, in the culture. But, like, yeah, I wasn't really a big Cosby fan. And quite honestly, season one of A Different World with Lisa Bonet, you can kind of just skip. That's my hot take.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Okay, wow. We're going to circle back to that.

Megan Ruble: Megan heard of it very much in, like, a cultural context. I've maybe watched one or two episodes because it was, like, on something, but never consciously sat down and been like, I'm gonna watch the Cosby show.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Concerned you.

Sergio Perez: Like, I know the Cosby show. When I was a kid, it would come on, on Nick at night, and I was, like, really, really bad. And so I'd stay up, but I don't remember anything from it, really. I just remember seeing the time slot in the TV guide that said, cosby show Nick at night. And I was like, great. That's, my cue to go to bed. I, And so I went,  

Megan Ruble: I love the visual image of Sergio, little Sergio just sitting up, being like, I'm being so disobedient. Like, watching Nick at night.

Sergio Perez: Hm-hm, cause it was Nick at night. I was like, ooh, that's when the rails come off. They can do anything on Nickelodeon now.

Serita Fontanesi: Being the Cosby show at that, of like, ooh, I'm staying up late to watch the Cosby show.

Susan Lambert Hatem: You scofflaw.

Sergio Perez: I know, I was a terrible kid. I'd say bad words into pillows. I, like, put them up to my face.

Serita Fontanesi: Oh, my God, I'm just so precious.

Sergio Perez: I go “stupid.” Stuff like that. It was really funny.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Oh, my God, you are breaking my heart.

Sergio Perez: I say them out loud now, though, so.

Serita Fontanesi: You're so brave.

Sergio Perez: Thank you.

Megan Ruble: We're proud of you.

Susan Lambert Hatem: But I'm just very curious about. Stupid is a bad word.

Sergio Perez: It was stupid and shut up. Those are the two that I would say into pillows. Yeah. Ah.

Sharon Johnson: I can see where your parents would have discouraged the use of the word stupid at some point, especially when you were much younger, too, so it makes all kinds of sense. But nevertheless, there were situations that required in all of our lives, no matter how young or how old, using those words.

Susan Lambert Hatem:, I'm not sure how you shut up. Even to this day. It's so ingrained, it's not allowed.

Sharon Johnson: still, I guess I've just gotten to the point where as much as I'd like to say it, sometimes I recognize that there's just no point, perhaps.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Oh, no, I think it a lot.

Serita Fontanesi: I don't use it as in, like, I want someone to stop talking. It's more of, like, an exclamation of, like, shock.

Sharon Johnson: That's very different.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Yes.

Sergio Perez: Yeah. See, I learned that from Freaky Friday. Yes. Lindsay Lohan, Jamie Lee Curtis. because. Shut! Up! Oh, that's how I hear it. Yeah.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Jamie Lee Curtis and Lindsay Lohan. That was a Lindsay Lohan peak as far as I'm concerned. For sure. Although Parent Trap was pretty good, too. Yeah.

Sharon Johnson: But getting back to what we're here to discuss today, let's just sort of first overall thoughts, and shall we start with Megan? Since you came into this really with the least information about the show before you started watching, I had a great.

Megan Ruble: Time with it, I guess would be my overall thing in comparing, like, the other shows we've watched. I definitely, like, wish I had had the time, basically, to actually just watch the whole thing, because more than other things we've watched,

00:15:00

Megan Ruble: I felt like the show changed season to season in a pretty extreme way, where all of a sudden I was like, oh, I'm having to. I was like, oh, the pilot's very clear. This is what we're setting up. Here's who we're meeting. This is the sort of conversation we're having. And what was neat was every episode I watched, I was like, oh, we are still having a, like, melding of worlds conversation in each episode, but the worlds that were melding were vastly different. The setup for that was very different. I think that's actually really cool, though, to be able to carry your conceit through different seasons in that way. But, yeah, it was super fun. It felt like, I don't mean this in a bad way, and I think other millennials will understand that. I don't mean it in a bad way. It feels like a good, like you have on in the background and you watch 40 times sort of TV show, right? Yeah, there's stakes that are life and death to these people. But absolutely, like, in. Well, some of the cases were very extreme, but, like, for the most part, seemed very, like, kind of fluffy. But, yeah, it was a grand old time also, like, it was cool for me. So I can only imagine culturally, like, how that felt to be like, oh, the conversation of, like, different worlds coming together is usually like, oh, look, a person of color and a white person. Wow, different backgrounds. And then to have it be all people of color and being like, and now we're going to talk about different worlds coming together. Awesome. Cool. Like, what? Just a really cool way to do that and not make a huge deal out of it, if that makes sense. Like, we're inclined to now where it's like, look, look what we've done. And it's like, no, we're just putting different people together. The end.

Sharon Johnson: Sergio, what are your initial, overall thoughts about a different world?

Sergio Perez: I felt really cool watching it. My brother was born in 1990, my sister was born in 87. And so growing up, I consumed a lot of the media they did, and they loved saved by the bell. And so I would watch saved by the bell with them and I'd feel cool. And it had that same feeling where I was like, oh, like, I'm now one of the cool kids. I'm sitting at the cool table watching a different world. I really enjoyed it because now that I've watched two seasons, and, like, I remember while watching season one, I was like, how could people dislike season one? And then you get to season two and you're like, oh, okay. Season two is really where it gets started. And Serita, if you want, we can talk about this later. Season one, I had some fun with it, but I'm sure within the greater context of the entire series, it's definitely the runt of the litter. But I don't really know how much I can say without getting into the conversation that I want to have with everybody already. Just know I had a great time.

Sharon Johnson: That's a good place to start. And I see no reason why at some point we can't touch on season one and seasons two through six and the differences. A lot of shows take a little bit of time, whether it be a whole season or a few episodes or whatever it is, to kind of find itself. And I think this show was no exception in that regard. Serita, you talked about it a little bit. So if you want to expand a little bit further on your high level thoughts about the show overall, I will.

Serita Fontanesi: Say to Sergio's point, the first time you're watching the show, watch all the seasons. Like, they are all like, you're going to find something good in all of them. And it's really fun to get to see the show build and find itself, right? Once you're in a rewatch, I personally believe you can skip season one altogether and we can dig into that deeper later. I think part of what I loved about the show so much and what I continue to love each time I watch it is how grounded it feels like, yeah, there's, like, some silly hijinks and, like, you know, the, like, Dwayne and Ron are always getting into some. Something, and there are moments of exaggeration, but the vast majority of the show is, like, very grounded in, like, real life possibilities and, like, scenarios and situations that real humans would find themselves in. And then I think also, you know, having watched it as a kid and then watched it when I was in college and right after college, so then I was sort of, like, the same age as them, and then watching now as allegedly an adult, kind of, like, reflecting on my college experience, I'm still able to, like, feel seen in the show at, like, all of those different age points, which I think is, like, really special and, like, rare in TV. And, like, six seasons is no small feet, but it's also not like, you know, like, friends that went on for ten seasons or, like, other shows that, like, are. I mean, Shonda is working harder than anyone. You know, grey's is never gonna

00:20:00

Serita Fontanesi: end, but, like, to tell such, like, really beautiful and poignant. Like, there are so many. I was thinking about the episodes. There are so many episodes that touch on, like, super intense, real world things that were deeply relevant to that time period and still hold relevancy now and then. Also the really fun, light hearted episodes of, again, just, like, the hijinks or a story or whatever, something happens is just, like, really, like, brilliant. Like, I just. I just feel like we don't have TV like that anymore, and there's some great TV now, but, like, it is still different.

Sergio Perez: We do not have TV like that anymore, because now everything is only eight episodes, and you don't get all 24 to do whatever the hell you want. Like, oh, we get a beach episode. Oh, we gotta go to the whatever, and I really hate it. I'm like, okay, sure, you have your story that you really wanna tell, and you condense it into your eight episodes, but it doesn't give any room for anybody to breathe. And I just. I wanna go back to 24 with 15 filler episodes and a, Thanksgiving episode and a Valentine's Day episode and, like, stuff like that.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Yeah.

Serita Fontanesi: Like, you really get to understand the characters. Like, I am a ride or die for Whitley Gilbert, and I know that that is absolutely not how she starts in the show, but even from the jump, I was like, look, I love a diva. But then, like, even still Whitley, like, no one stays one dimensional in the show, because there's so much space to really dig into who these people are in their lives.

Megan Ruble: That was one of the things, even from the few episodes we watched that I noted, which is really impressive for a sitcom. Cause, like, I will be fully transparent. I'm not a big friends fan, but I do recognize, like, why it was what it was. And it is like, if we're creating a template for a sitcom, it's perfect, right? Like, they set up a perfect sitcom, but, like, to go and have your characters grow and change and it still work is really impressive. Like, that's really cool. And that's one of the reasons why I'm like, oh, I want to go see how they did that because that's really neat and really exciting and,

Serita Fontanesi: Like, grow together, right? Like, we get to really see them develop and foster, like, these relationships with each other and, like, a full, like, slice, a true slice of life of, like, what is it like at, ah, Hillman College and the world around it? And I don't want to say too much because Sergio's watching the show right now and hopefully Megan will have some time to watch it. But, like, getting to see how the characters develop together and how their relationships and connections to each other again in a way that feels grounded in real life possibility. Of course, it is a TV show. There's a level of, like, heightened and dramatics and hijinx, whatever, but, like, none of the storyline or, like, yeah, the storylines never feel completely outside of the realm of possibility. And I think that that is also something that, like, we don't really see in TV and sitcoms in particular anymore. Like, everything is at twelve. or it's like a super serious drama. And. And finding that, like, middle ground, I think, is really hard. To Sergio's point, especially in, like, eight, maybe ten episodes.

Susan Lambert Hatem: That point. Sergio is so interesting. And it's been a lot of discussion on the Twitter that I follow writer Twitter about that, that you can't have kind of a throwaway episode. Right. It was so much what television was, was falling in love with characters. Abbott elementary may be the only one that's a close to being able to do that. For me, that's the only one that I can think of that's coming even close. And even then, it's not 23 episodes. Are they doing 23 episodes?

Sergio Perez: They did for season two and then writer strike hit and they only did, I think, 14 for the latest season.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Okay.

Megan Ruble: Even always sunny in Philadelphia, which is one of my favorite shows and the most insane, ridiculous thing that has ever existed, had a shortened season. It was weird because it was like, this show is nonsense, and we're trying to all of a sudden cram, like, ridiculous nonsense into a short.

Serita Fontanesi: Yeah.

Megan Ruble: I don't know.

Susan Lambert Hatem: So I'm curious because clearly Serita's favorite character is Whitley, which I think I could have picked. And I hope that you have a chance to listen to the Susan Fales Hill episode where she was basically like, yeah, I think the show coincided with me being kind of the voice of Whitley. I'm curious about all of the episodes you watched. Who were your favorite characters that popped out for you?

Sergio Perez: I love Jaleesa.

00:25:00

Sergio Perez: I think she is so cool. I am, like, equal parts, like, oh, my gosh, she is so cool. And also, oh, my gosh, she could dress me down in a minute. Like, just, like, absolutely read you for Phil. And that's the cool thing about that character, is that she's just so honest. but she really cares about the people that she is surrounded with. I've been, like, online in a different world, fan groups and stuff because of the podcast. And, I know how they wrap up her storyline, and I'm not really very satisfied by it. And so I, like, whenever I do see her, I'm like, oh, yeah, I like Jaleesa. and never watched the Cosby show, but Denise huxtable just being Denise huxtable was. She was just fun. I mean, like, that's Lisa Bonet. How can you not like, oh, I gravitate towards Lisa Bonet. But, yeah, Jaleesa, Denise. And then I say, Dwayne.

Susan Lambert Hatem: All, right. Dwayne Wayne. Megan, any singular episode?

Megan Ruble: I don't know if I'd have an answer. But thinking about the, like, arc, watching Jaleesa's arc was really cool and made me like, oh, I think that's what I was just talking about. And, like, watching a character grow and change, it reminded me, a lot of how I felt about as I watched Mindy Project. Starting with Mindy being a character where I was like, this is fun, but I would never hang out with her in real life to, like, oh, no, you're, like, a wonderfully complex person. This is so cool. I'm glad I'm on your journey with this. yeah.

Serita Fontanesi: So I'll say, Whitley, ride or die, my girl. But I do think Kim was probably the character that I related most to in that, like, high achieving but also neurotic and also just, like, trying to do her best with these unrealistic expectations that she's, like, put on herself. I was a theater major, not a med student, so we can only relate so far. But, like, I think I really related to her personality. Like, even now, like, right. Like, I'm, like, super involved in extracurriculars and chem, and, like, I went to undergrad on a. On a scholarship on a full ride, and, like, that added pressure of, like, I can't. My grades can't slip, because then I'll lose my scholarship, and then I won't be able to be here. Right? Like, and so I think Kim was probably the character that I related most to, but I love Whitley. Like, she's just so fun. Getting to see these, like, young Black women just be, like, just as rich as their white counterparts and, like, unapologetic about it. That was just, like, really deeply satisfying.

Susan Lambert Hatem: I love the evolution of characters, and if you do get a chance to watch more, it is pretty fascinating. It is a. I keep thinking of it as a soap opera sitcom because the relationships evolve. Like, oh, I'm dating this person. I like this person. Nope. Now I like this person. People really literally grow up on this show and go from being students to teachers and from being goofballs to professionals and from being divas to fully rounded, thoughtful human beings. So, Serita, when you watched it as a young person, it was before you went to college, and I'm curious if it adjusted your expectation or your experience of college or what you wanted out.

Serita Fontanesi: Of college in some ways. Like, I didn't go to an HBCU. I went to Occidental. Right. But still, there was a level of, like, oh, when I go to college, I'll be able not only to find my people, but to find people who look like me and people who have similar experiences as me. Like, you know, you find BSA. And I wasn't part of divine nine, but, like, when we would go to parties at USC, I was like, oh, like, I know what that is. And, like. Like, my mom wasn't divine nine. My grandma wasn't. So it wasn't part of my family story, but I already had some ideas of it from other people. But then seeing it in the show, right? Like, Ron pledges, Kim pledges, and, like, we see some of that greek life culture, and just, like, again, the idea that there could be space for young Black people in these institutions to have and, like, feel safe and seen and all of that, I think, definitely informed some of my expectations of college. Or, like, again, what I thought could be possible. So then re watching it in college and, like, right after college and sort of, like, comparing notes almost. There was a lot that lined up, a lot that didn't. But, like, I definitely think it gave me a lot of insight into, like, possibility.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Megan and Sergio. I know you guys didn't watch it before you went to college, but I'm curious

00:30:00

Susan Lambert Hatem: what you thought of college from television before you went to college. Did you have any expectation based on what you saw in television and movies?

Megan Ruble: I don't think I watched a lot of television and movies that centered around college life. I'm, probably misremembering, and I'm sure I watched something that, you know, defined what my expectations were, but nothing comes to mind. What comes to mind now is thinking of, like, shows like Buffy the vampire Slayer that span high school to college and then beyond, and how much more. And granted, the plot gets more serious as it goes on, but how much more attached I was to the later seasons of Buffy because, like, her going through the college experience and growing and her entering into the real world, so to speak, and, like, going through those changes is infinitely more interesting to me as a person watching a story, infinitely more relatable to me as a person who has been through those things. So, like, for this show, getting dropped into the college experience, even from season one, made me more like, oh, yeah, I miss that world. I loved college, and, like, I love that world. And I think to your point, Susan, it does open up. People grow and change and change their minds and discover more things in college than they do in high school. And so setting it up in a college environment made me nostalgic for college and made me excited for how all of these people were going to actually change and grow.

Susan Lambert Hatem: And on that note, let's take a break. We'll be back with more.

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Speaker F: Are you a true crime fan, a true crime lover, and you're searching for a new podcast to binge? Then you need to check out Grits with a side of murder. The host is Tammy, and she has a plethora of crazy co hosts that join in with a dash of humor and a splash of alcohol. This is the kind of stuff you can only get from south Louisiana. And just because we're from south Louisiana, that doesn't mean that those are the only crimes we talk about. We cover crimes worldwide. So check grits out on any of the platforms where you listen to your podcasts, or go to the website gritswithaside of murder.com. now, tell your mom and them we said hey, and go listen to grits with a side of murder.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Welcome back. If you don't want to listen to those ads anymore, go on over to patreon.com eightiesTVladies, and you can get them ad free. Anyway, where were we?

Sergio Perez: I also didn't watch a lot of stuff that centered around, like, just academia in, like, high school or college. But I do think that, like, when you're in high school, once you graduate, you have become the person that you are. And then when you go to college, that is you becoming the person you are going to be. Like, that's the entire process of it. And so just applying that and seeing it in a different world, knowing that these characters go through vast transformations, and just thinking about who I was as a freshman in college and how different I am now, it aligns pretty well, I think, with what I saw on a different world from the episodes that we watched all the way up to season six, where I was like, okay, yeah, it also is making me feel great because I'm four years post grad now, and I'm like, maybe it's okay that I don't have everything figured out, because who does at the end of the day? Like, not everyone can just become a consultant.

Susan Lambert Hatem: When you watch these episodes for the first time, did you know who Diahann Carroll was or Patti Labelle out in the world?

Megan Ruble: I don't think so. Under a rock over here?

Susan Lambert Hatem: No, no. It's because it's that generation where if you missed it, I don't know where you see it.

Serita Fontanesi: Yeah, I was just thinking, like, I, absolutely did. It's probably because I was raised by a grandma. I mean, listen, like, you're not gonna. It's. It's Saturday morning. The chores need to be done. Patti is screeching through the house, you know, and then even now, we've got Patti pies. Like. Cause she's got her whole pie line. Like, Patti Labelle is a staple. But both of them as being Whitley and Dwayne's moms, just simply brilliant. No notes.

Susan Lambert Hatem: They were huge stars for people of a certain age to be guest stars.

Sharon Johnson: Although of the two of them, Diahann

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Sharon Johnson: Carroll had a long history in television, but Patti LaBelle did not. Patti Labelle was. Is a singer and is predominantly known for that I think she had maybe done some small things, but nothing like this before. I'm not sure how this happened, but she was fantastic and she was perfect in this role to me.

Susan Lambert Hatem: And, Diahann Carroll was the first Black woman to star in a television show that was about her. It was called Julia. It was 1968.

Sharon Johnson: The ones that featured Diahann Carroll and, Patti LaBelle are very much broad comedy. But we also gave you, an example of an episode where the show tackled a difficult subject matter with the no means no episode. they kind of did it all basically throughout the course of the season. So any thoughts you have about those episodes in particular?

Megan Ruble: I've been dying to talk about the “No Means No” episode, my first. And like, the headline of the thought is, I thought it did that conversation so right for so many reasons.

Sharon Johnson: Just to give the audience who hasn't watched those episodes yet, no means no episode is one where Freddie had gone on a date with a, he's.

Serita Fontanesi: Like a star athlete. And so everybody is always like, oh, my God, you're so great. You're so wonderful, Freddie, you're so lucky to go out with him. And she's like, I'm so excited. Like, I'm gonna go out with the such and such.

Sharon Johnson: Yeah.

Megan Ruble: It also keeps being emphasized what a great guy he is.

Megan Ruble: Which I think is one of the things that episode does really. Right.

Serita Fontanesi: Tale is old as time. Dwayne, before the date, hears him talking about his behavior on dates, which means that, like, this man has normalized this, like, violent behavior so much that he thinks it's fine to talk about it while playing basketball with friends as if it's nothing. And then Dwayne immediately is like, that doesn't sound right. But, like, everybody's gassing this man up. So maybe I'm the problem, which is super common in society. And Dwayne goes to, Walter, because he's basically like the, he's both a coach and like, the dorm dad. Dwayne's like, this is what I heard. And it feels wrong, but maybe I'm wrong. And Walter is like, absolutely not. It's wrong. And whoever it is that you're talking about, you need to talk to this person. And so Dwayne tries to warn Freddie about going on the date. And Freddie is like, Dwayne, you're just jealous. Like, this guy has it all and he gets all the women. And Dwayne, you're just like a goofy nerd and you're jealous. And sure enough, they go on the date, and he essentially, tries to assault Freddie. But Dwayne, because he is a great guy, had followed them and is there and helps rescue Freddie. Although Freddie is able to, like, fight him off at the end, we learn that many women come forward. Having said that, they have either been assaulted or attempted assaults have been made on them by this alleged star athlete.

Megan Ruble: The phrasing and the repeated phrasing around him, not just that he was a star athlete, but being such a great guy and that being something that is reemphasized through the beginning of the episode, he has repeated phrasing as well. That is really important. Where I believe he keeps saying, like, it's our job to convince them, which I think is so good as writing because it is one disgusting. But it is too, like, it is something internalized for him, too. Like, there is a little, like, glimmer of sympathy for him because there is this sense that, like, he has internalized that this is his role in society, which is gross but not inaccurate. And then, most importantly, the fact that we take time in the episode to have an older man sit down with the younger man and just be like, absolutely not. The younger man poses the question of, like, you know, your body wants one thing, your brain says another. She's saying, no, what do you listen to? And he goes, her mouth. You listen to what she's saying and you stop. It's crystal clear. It lands kind of not as a joke, but as a, witty way to phrase that. It's so well done. And the fact that they sit down to have a conversation about it is so important and so cool. And that whole conversation, I was just screaming and like, yes, yes, this is.

Serita Fontanesi: How you do this.

Megan Ruble: I think this scene itself, where we see them on the date, is worth looking at for multiple reasons because it once again works really well. She fights him off, which gives her, like, agency in that you still get kind of a joke that I think kind of works with Dwayne coming in and stopping it. Like, Dwayne looks ridiculous in trying to stop it. He's doing such a genuine loving thing. He just looks dumb doing it.

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Megan Ruble: The one thing where I was like, oh, guys, you almost nailed this. To the point where I'm like, how do people not just copy paste this for forever and always was on the date? They do have a kiss that seems to be a consensual kiss, and there's an audience track that comes in with, like, a, ooh. And I went, ooh, we all know where this scene is going. And to throw in a like, oh, they kissed is like, no, this is horrifying. That is the only note I have. I think it's a conversation that's handled really well. I wish that contemporary TV had that direct of a conversation about it while also handling it with such nuance and grace. I was so excited. That's a weird thing to say. But, like, I was so excited about how that conversation was handled.

Sharon Johnson: My reaction, partial reaction about the. The athlete, when he was talking about how this is what we're supposed to do, sounded to me like he was parroting something that he had been told by somebody else, and I wondered if anybody else had the same reaction.

Megan Ruble: Yes. And I think that's why it's so important that, like, that's how it was traced.

Serita Fontanesi: We were fully watching, like, this is the generational patterns that we are talking. Like, when we talk about, like, rape culture or we talk about patriarchy, right? Like, these big topics, like, this is the way in which, like, they're so insidious and get passed down from person to person, generation. Generation. Because I got the sense of, like, when you went on your first date, your dad said, this is what you do. Because that's how he treated your mother, and that is how he treated the other women in his life. And he probably learned it from his dad, who learned from. Right. Like, this idea that people just, like, are born or wake up and like, to seek to do harm to others, I think is, like, pretty, like, inaccurate. And that, like, nine k out of ten, this is learned behavior. Because he's also talking to Dwayne as if, like, come on, you get it. You know, surely your dad told you, too. And it's like, you know, like, that joke of, like, I didn't realize something was trauma, and because I was telling it as a funny story at a party, and everybody was like, are you okay? And it's sort of like the other side of that. Of, like, oh, I didn't realize this was really toxic until I was talking about it, and everybody was like, that's messed up. And again, I think it's also really incredible to see Dwayne really grappling with kind of, like, the. The metaphorical death of a perceived, like, that guy's the man. As he's realizing this is how you treat women. like, I'm pretty sure that's not how you treat women. And again, the self gaslighting of, maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I'm the problem. And that's why I think it's also this really beautiful moment of, like, this is why it's so important to talk to each other. And like, when women and femmes are like, we can't be the ones to end rape culture and to take down the patriarchy, it's because we aren't the ones upholding it. Vast majority, right? Like the people who it is instilled in and the people who are in a position of power to maintain or dismantle it are y'all. And when I say y'all, I mean like cis, predominantly hetero men, right? And so, like, Dwayne having that conversation with Walter, and Walter being like, you listen to her mouth and when she says no, then you stop. Validates the, like, uneasiness Dwayne was feeling and motivates him to action. Now, of course, Freddie is like, whatever, you're jealous, whatever. But Dwayne even goes as far as to be like, I'm going to be there for my friend. And worst case scenario, I just look like an idiot around her and her date and everything's fine, and it's fine. Best case scenario, I still look like an idiot falling to the moon roof, but I am able to help my friend get out of a potentially dangerous situation.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Yeah, it was really impressive to watch that episode. It was one of the few I remembered a little bit. Like, I was like, oh, I remember there's a thing, right? There's a date rape episode. But I was impressed how subtle it was, and I was impressed. I think there's a line in there that is saying, we need to talk about this stuff. You need to talk to your friend. He takes agency and says, we need to solve this, you know, amongst our relationships with our friends, and speak up and go, that's not cool. And, ah, we can't do that.

Serita Fontanesi: And also, I like that the kiss is in there and that it seems like even though we, the audience, fully know the possibility of where we are headed, because I think that's such a real situation of like, look, I said I was comfortable with this, but I'm not comfortable with that. And I need you to hear my no when it shows up the first time and not be like, well, but we went to dinner, so that means I'm entitled to something. You gave me a kiss, so that means

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Serita Fontanesi: everything else is a green light, because that is not true and that is not reality. And so, like, while it is absolutely uncomfortable to be watching because we, the audience, know the full context of the situation, I think it is also a, really important moment, I imagine, for someone watching who maybe there wasn't a Dwayne there to, like, step in or. And that no wasn't heard because it's so easy for survivors to convince themselves. But I, like, went out to dinner with him. I kissed him. I shouldn't have been alone in the car with him, like, write all the things that then society perpetuates. And to see it from Freddie's perspective, which is Dwayne's being a, nut because he's always up to something. And I'm really excited to be on a date with this guy. And my boundary is like, yeah, we can kiss, but that's as far as this is going to go. And then him try to blow past that boundary. The setup for Freddie is, of course, violence and harm, but then the internal struggle as part of her healing. And to be able to tell that story of, it's okay to say yes and then say no. It's okay to say yes to a point and then say no. And coming back to Sinbad's line of, you listen to her mouth that says no.

Megan Ruble: Yeah, I 100% agree with you about the kiss. to clarify, my issue is with the audience track that comes in there, the audience reaction of like, yeah, I think you're absolutely right, though.

Serita Fontanesi: Audience, you're in on it with us. What are you doing? Oohing.

Megan Ruble: Yeah.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Hey, you know, it's an interesting choice to keep the audience reaction in there.

Susan Lambert Hatem: This was filmed before a live audience. So that is the audience reaction that happened to. I think that it tells you something about the time and how even when it's obvious to us as a. Particularly as an audience now, looking back, there was so many relationships in a different world. It was very exciting when these beautiful young people were getting together and not. And whatever that the ingrained response to young people getting together was.

Megan Ruble: Whoa.

Susan Lambert Hatem: And it happens in kind of almost all those moments of romance in the show in other moments. So it's very interesting because it was deeply uncomfortable to hear the audience excited because we knew what was coming. Of course she's excited for her. She doesn't know, but it is this weird thing. And I don't know a, Not that many live audiences anymore. But it's a different. It's a different world. I've been trying not to use that metaphor. I've been trying not to say that.

Megan Ruble: It came naturally for everyone playing the drinking game at home. You now have to finish your drink. Thank you.

Susan Lambert Hatem: The amount that we could talk about date rape in 1989, when this episode aired, it was a different conversation. It was a harder conversation. It was not a conversation that many people were comfortable with and showing on television how to have these conversations. Even if you went like, well, that worked or that didn't work, it was the Internet. It was how you would learn to have those conversations. There would be newspaper articles, and then there would be television show. But television shows were reaching millions of people. The show is reaching 12 million people. Like, you know, an episode.

Serita Fontanesi: This reminds me of the AIDS episode, which happens in a later season with Tia Campbell. Shout out, Tia Campbell. And again, this show is happening at the peak of the AIDS epidemic, running rampant through Black communities, especially. And again, it's this idea of challenging the preconceived notions that we have around these really sensitive subjects. The short of it is one of the classes, they have to write a story about where their future selves will be. And a student shares that. She doesn't know if she'll be alive because she has HIV and knows that it will become AIDS because this is the eighties, and they don't have the medications that they have now. And, of course, people have some really uninformed responses. But then also, Kim, shout out to my girl Kim, because she's a medical student, is like, you're all idiots. And, like, stands up for Tia Campbell. And, like, she does the education to everyone so that Tia Campbell doesn't have to, basically. And is like, if you don't want to be friends with her, then you're not going to be friends with me. Like, I'm not putting up with this. And, you know, everybody learns, and they grow, and it's beautiful. But again, it's so interesting to your point about the live audience, because, you know, when Kim is giving, like, her big speech, like, you're expecting the audience to be like, yeah, that's right.

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Serita Fontanesi: Like, da da da da. And it is silent because at the end of the day, those are regular people sitting in that audience who, I bet a vast majority of them are also learning something in that moment. And I think, again, one of the beautiful things of this show is that it taught so many people so much about the world. Like, Susan, I really liked what you said of, like, it was the Internet. Like, that was the closest to the Internet that we had, was what we were consuming in media at that time. Time and a different world. Debbie Allen did such a brilliant job of sharing real information in, like, honest and thoughtful ways, and also in a way that people could actually receive it as not just, like, a very important episode or, like, an after school special. You can't just be like, well, that was one bad guy. Like, it was evident how much like that was what he perceived as a cultural norm, which means there have to be other people who think and behave like him.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Yeah, I totally agree. It's scary how much this sitcom has depth in some ways that I didn't even recognize because I wasn't watching every episode at the time. But I so appreciate now all the ways it was working. You know, I, been excited about the conversations in many of the shows from the eighties, which were, hey, we're going to teach you how to use a microwave. Because microwaves are brand new and people were afraid of them. or we're going to teach you about HIV and AIDS. We're going to teach you about breast cancer. We're going to teach you about date rape and inform you about some really important things. This show, it's so rich in its characters and it's funny.

Sharon Johnson: Sergio, did you have any thoughts about this particular episode that you wanted to share?

Sergio Perez: Yes. Two things really stood out to me. And it was when they were in the gym playing basketball and the two women walk in and the victim's reaction was just so visceral and so real and played so seriously that I was not expecting it, especially in a sitcom. It was just very well played. And then, the other thing that stuck out to me was in the conversation between Dwayne and Coach where Dwayne asks, but what about if it's your wife? Like, you're married to her? Like, why not? What about that? And Coach says, even then, no, you cannot do that. You have to listen to her. And that's a conversation that I think especially older generations in the eighties were like, you need to hear that because that's something that was and still continues to happen today. I, mostly echo everything that we've all said already. Like, this is a very progressive conversation for a sitcom that came out when it did. And, like, very impressive that they were able to get it so right.

Sharon Johnson: And I think it's kind of sad that it probably should be done again because I don't know that we've gotten very much further down the road on this topic as we should have by now. But I actually had forgotten about that part of the question, Sergio, about Dwayne bringing up how this applies when it's your spouse as opposed to your girlfriend. And that can't be minimized either.

Sergio Perez: And Dwayne also says something where he says, like, oh, but I thought that that's just something that sleazy people in alleyways do. Like, sleazy people in, like, trench coats. Like, sleazy guys do that and like we said, like, they keep saying, oh, he's such a great guy. He's a star athlete. Like, it's so true. Anyone, it can, as. I don't want to be like, ooh, fear, mongery. But, yeah, it can be anybody. It doesn't just isolate itself to a certain type of person.

Sharon Johnson: There's so many impressive things about this episode, but the fact that this is season two, the second episode of season two under the new regime, and they took this subject matter and handled it as brilliantly, in my opinion, as they did, it's always tough to have that balance, especially in a sitcom. and I think they did it spectacularly. There's a lot of fluff, but when they got to real stuff in the show, I don't think anybody did it better anyway.

Susan Lambert Hatem: So is it feminist? Is it progressive?

Megan Ruble: I'd say yes and yes.

Sharon Johnson: Sergio?

Sergio Perez: I would also say yes and yes. I think the cool thing about the show is that, all of the characters in it, none of the women are the same character, which is something you run into a lot with a sitcom where, like, there's a stock character and everybody plays a different part. They all had different aspirations, and they all had different storylines. And I just. Their characterizations were all very clean and solid. And, yeah, I will say it is feminist and progressive. So that's two out of three.

Serita Fontanesi: Surprising. No, one. Yes and yes. I rarely am in support of a reboot, but

00:55:00

Serita Fontanesi: I would take a reboot of a different world. I would be tuning in. Like, they have multiple episodes about the apartheid, and we could talk about the war on Gaza. Right. Rape culture is still incredibly apparent. You know, does the AIDS conversation turn into talking about prep? Like, I think there's just so much that easily translates and is still relevant today that. Yeah, I would. Debbie Allen, if you're listening, I would happily welcome a reboot.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Any final thoughts?

Sergio Perez: I'm going to keep watching it. Yeah.

Megan Ruble: What I said at the beginning, I think remains true. I'm just so impressed with the way they handled one difficult conversation. And you have all talked about so many others that it seems like they handle expertly. I can't wait to watch more.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Starita, will you take us out with your final thoughts on a different world?

Serita Fontanesi: For a show to be able to still feel relevant 30 plus years later is, like, a feat. Right? Like, there are shows just from a few years ago that you're like, ugh, that was, I guess, a different time. And so, like, there's just so much remarkable talent from casts to writers show, like, every single person involved in that show, right. That even if you are not like a, sitcom person, I think you will find something in a different world to enjoy. And I it's hard not to fall in love with those characters, you know? Like, yes, Whitley's my favorite, but I love Dwayne and Ron and Jaleesa and Freddie and Mr. Gaines. Even the supposed side-characters are so well fleshed out. It's a great show and I hope we get to do Living Single in the future.

Sharon Johnson: And if you do end up watching more episodes, always keep an eye out for some amazing guest stars. The roster of guest stars on this show is unparalleled, in my opinion.

Susan Lambert Hatem: I love talking with you guys.

Sharon Johnson: I think this is, I don't think this is the first 90s TV Babies episode where I came into this feeling pretty confident about what you were going to think about a show. And I'm happy to say I was right the first time. Every other time you guys surprised me and. But not this time. Not this time.

Susan Lambert Hatem: And I think it may be the first time where you guys are a little bit in agreement.

Megan Ruble: Yeah, I think it's the first time we're across the board in agreement at least, right? Yeah, man. When it's good, it's just good. It's just inarguably good.

Susan Lambert Hatem: All right, thank you, guys. Thank you.

Sharon Johnson: Bye, guys.

Susan Lambert Hatem: For our Audiography today, you can learn more about a different world at the official Facebook page. Facebook.com  slash adifferentworld official.

Sharon Johnson: And when you have a moment, please check out Serita's not ugly pod. Find more information about it at notuglypod.com.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Megan's Shakespeare by the sea showtimes can be found at  shakespearebythesea.org.

Sharon Johnson: And for Sergio’s CinderAlice in wonderland. You can find more about that at  tinyurl.com.cinderalice - Did any of you guys out there recently watch or rewatch a different world? And if, so what did you think? We'd love to hear.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Send us messages on our website, eightiesTVladies.com. that's 80? S TV L A D I E S.com.

Sharon Johnson: We really appreciate your feedback. One way is to leave us a rating and review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify wherever you listen and mention what shows or ladies you want us to cover. Our next episode, we'll continue our look at a different world as we choose our top and favorite guest stars. Susan and I are each going to bring our top choices and then narrow it down.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Sharon, this is so gonna be hard because there's so many. So tune in for the fun and see if we can agree on our top favorite guest stars of a different world.

Sharon Johnson: As always, we hope eighties TV ladies brings you joy and laughter and lots of fabulous new and old shows to watch. All of which will lead us forward toward being amazing ladies of the 21st century.

[Singing] Amy Englehardt: 80s TV Ladies, So sexy and so pretty. 80s TV Ladies, Steppin’ out into the city. 80s TV Ladies, often treated kind of sh-[wolf whistle]. Working hard for the money in a man’s world. 80s TV Ladies!

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