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8TL_228_Transcript
Wed, Feb 28, 2024 9:19PM • 1:11:55
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
moonlighting, publicist, glenn, good, happened, arnold, love, job, thought, post production, movie, started, studio, sheryl, publicity, years, work, unit, give, director
SPEAKERS
Melissa Roth, Sharon Johnson, 80s TV Ladies Theme Song, Susan Lambert Hatem, Sheryl Main

Melissa Roth 00:00
Weirding Way Media.

80s TV Ladies Theme Song 00:06
80s TV Ladies, so sexy and so pretty. 80s TV Ladies, steppin’ out into the city. 80s TV Ladies, often treated kind of sh#*ty. Working hard for the money in a man’s world. 80s TV Ladies!

It's 80s TV Ladies time. Join us as we explore female driven television shows from the 1980s and celebrate those who made them. Here are your hosts, Susan Lambert Hatem and Sharon Johnson.

Sharon Johnson 00:38
Hi there. I'm Sharon.

Susan Lambert Hatem 00:40
And I'm Susan. You know, I love hearing stories about how people got started in the entertainment business, particularly if they started in the 1980s.

And I like stories about people who shape their own destiny as they reinvent and redirect their lives.

Well, I'm hoping we might have a little bit of both today. We have to thank our producer Miss Melissa Roth for introducing us to our next guest. Today

we'll be speaking with publicity and marketing strategist Sheryl Main. Sheryl has over 30 years experience in both entertainment and politics. She was the unit publicist for movies like Creed 3, Judas and the Black Messiah, the Expendables, Terminator 3, and The Perks of Being a Wallflower.

Before becoming an independent publicist, Sheryl worked as a senior publicist and executive at Warner Brothers pictures for nine years, and in between her film work with Arnold Schwarzenegger. She was tapped to be deputy communications director for California during his term as governor. She's an expert on international high profile publicity campaigns.

Sheryl is a communications consultant and strategist for many organizations, including IATSE and the International cinematographers guild. And the last one is where you met her Melissa, right?

Yes, we both served as National Executive Board members for ITSC local 600, which is the cinematographers guild. publicists join the guild. That's why Sheryl and I were together.

Well, that's awesome. But if it wasn't impressive enough, all that stuff that she did, Sheryl Main is a true blue 80s TV Ladies, which is why we're bringing her on to talk with us today. In the early part of her career, she spent five years on the groundbreaking television show Moonlighting, starting as an assistant and working her way up to post production supervisor. That's impressive.

Sheryl, thank you so much for joining us here today on 80s. TV. Ladies,

Sheryl Main 02:47
Thank you for having me. I'm so excited to talk to you guys. Thank you.

We are so thrilled you took the time to tell us about your career and your time at Moonlighting. But I want to start in that you were the co-chair of the 2023 Publicity Awards. Correct.

I think for the last five years, I've been the co-chair. So and you know, I'll get on March 8, this year 2024.

I mean, it's just been a year in the entertainment industry. Yeah, yeah. How did publicists do during this time of the strike? Um,

you know, COVID kicked it off. And actually, I was in Cleveland, when COVID first hit. I was doing a movie called Judas and the Black Messiah. And we were across from Cleveland Clinic, and they started talking about crazy stuff at what was going on people getting really sick. And and so that's when I heard about, you know, COVID, but we didn't think much of it until it shut everything down in March of

2020. Wednesday, right, march 13. For us anyway. And

I was working on The Morning Show, which is a show for Apple. And yeah, we just got the call. And that's it. So it was that part was tough, but they you know, the studios and our networks. I thought it was amazing. I've never had this happen before. But like Apple paid us for several weeks. I don't think anybody knew what the hell was happening. And then when we got the call to go back, it was hard. It really was emotionally and it was just psychologically, it was weird. But then you had this, you know, on set you work with this group of people. And so it almost became a safe place, which is totally wacky. Yeah. But it did, you know, and the strike was a whole different world because we weren't on strike. But we were supporting the actors and the writers and their mission. But it was really difficult. You couldn't go to work. You were people were losing their homes. People were getting angry. We're understanding. But then this thing called IA solidarity really started coming together. And people started realizing that you have to support. And you know, the IATSC is going into negotiations on March 4. And they're not afraid to say that they will call for a strike vote if we don't get what we should get. But then Mike Miller, who's the Vice President of the IA, told us the other day that he feels that, you know, we're going to get there. But it's a little freaky thinking that maybe we're gonna go on strike again, and nobody's recovered, because the recovery is slow. I mean, I know everyone thought this was gonna be, whoo, here we go. Everybody's gonna work in five minutes. But the things that went back were the things that were already in production. And it's a little dicey still, but, you know, I've worked in this business a long time, I've been through two strikes, it's not good. You know, there were folks that really thought we should have gone on strike, the IA, three years ago, and we're very angry about it. And they kind of changed their tune, once they realize the collateral damage. I mean, it's, it's epic, it really is. And, you know, is there a winner? I mean, you'd like to think negotiations are about a negotiating, you know, we shouldn't be fighting, we should be talking and figuring it out. And, you know, you can't, a studio can't say we had the best year ever, and then say, but safety and all that costs too much money. So you know, it's the conundrum. Yeah,

that was one of the most frustrating things to me, when the writer's strike happened that the studios basically just walked away and refused to talk. As you said, you've got to negotiate. If you don't talk to each other, you can't negotiate. So they didn't. And I don't understand that. But I'd like to think that there's no appetite, especially on the studio side at this point to go through that again. Yeah.

Well, they have a little bit of time, which is good. Yes. But speaking to the producers, I mean, honestly, when somebody came out and said, You know what, let 'em eat cake, basically. It's like, Dude, seriously? No, but that's, you know, so anyway, we're gonna see. I think, you know, again, I want to maintain some positivity, and this IA solidarity thing has really come to fruition. And I'm happy about that. I think on March 3, there's going to be an IA solidarity gathering in the Valley at one of the parks. And I'm really looking forward to that. Thousands of people could show up and, you know, that's a visual that you can't you can't deny, you know, we're human beings. So, yeah,

yeah, being in solidarity makes a huge difference.

You know, even the Publicist Awards, you know, we had to find we've historically been at the Beverly Hilton. They hadn't settled their strike with their workers. And we told them upfront that we were not going to go anywhere where workers weren't paid a fair wage. And it's important that we all support each other's fight. Because, you know, we've seen what happens when we don't, right, yeah, there's that. All right. Well,

you are a powerhouse. So you know, publicist, and international PR expert, a crisis management expert. What are your favorite parts of being a publicist? Oh,

wow. I don't think anybody's ever asked me that before. Well, first of all, I grew up wanting to win an Oscar. I mean, I used to get dressed up. Honestly, I was such a dork. But I would get dressed up and watch the Oscars. And my mom would be like, you know, she'd feed into that she was she was all into that as well. But I still believe in the magic movies. I you know, no matter what's going on, if I've seen it happen 20 times I still stand there and go holy crap. How did they do that? I like the familiar feeling of working on a project. Everyone has the same goal. You don't have to like each other. You don't have to agree with each other. But working together proves that you can, you know, have a goal no matter what, and make something good happen. I like that aspect of it. And being able to be creative and come up with ideas and strategically thinking about how to engage people to want to see or you no experience what you're doing. So it all came together in some very weird way for me, and I'm just I'm like, Are you kidding me? I love what I do. I'll do it 'til I can't and it's just the blending of perfect worlds. And I when I mentor people, I try and make that point very clear that you know, you can do something that you love, and like it and have fun, you know? Yeah,

I mean, it's The entertainment business should be entertaining to be in.

It's not and you know, you know that as well as I do that, you know, especially back in the day the, you know, the entertainment was harassing people, you know? Yeah,

so did you grew up in New York,

I was born in Pennsylvania outside of Pittsburgh, and I split my time between there and New York City. I wanted to go to acting school. And so I went to New York and studied with Ute Hagan. And I was terrible. But I got it in the world, you know, and there was an ad in the New York Times that said director looking for an assistant. And I thought, well, how hard could that be? And so I made an appointment, and I went, and it turned out to be John Avildsen, who had directed and won an Oscar for Rocky. And he was looking for an assistant, which I didn't know at the time, he couldn't really keep an assistant. But, um, you know, I, I took the job. It was my introduction. It was my first job. And I learned a lot, a lot, a lot. And then I got the hell out of there. And started work as a PA on movies. And so I was a production assistant on-- Actually I was the director's assistant on the Pope of Greenwich Village. But they'd gone through three directors and Stuart Rosenberg, who became the final director. Bless your heart, Stuart, but he was a little bit of a misogynist, and, you know, told me to go home one day because he didn't like the fact that I had pink jeans on. So anyway, Mickey Rourke, this is the first time I've felt like people took care of each other in this business is Mickey Rourke heard him do that. And he came to me and he said, F- him. You'll come and work with me. You'll be my assistant. Wow. And so that's how, yeah, and that that forged a relationship with Mickey that, you know, I still see him occasionally. And so yeah, isn't

that amazing? Like the power that there is in reaching out to somebody in that moment. That's huge.

And it's always nice to hear people using their power, for lack of a better word for good and to be of assistance to someone. So that's really great that he did that for you. It

happened to my-- Glenn Caron was like that. But it happened frequently in my career. But here's the thing I find really interesting. It was always men. Never a woman. I wish

I could say I'm surprised that stood

up or that took you out?

Both, you know. So I think that, in itself, helped me to like, want to help women, girls, whatever. I mean, anybody really, but and I was a girl girl, you know, I mean, I, you know, I grew up around a lot of guys. So I was feisty, and I could fend for myself. But my girlfriends were my, my friends. But at any rate, that was that. So there

weren't a lot of women at that point in the movie business. And so it mattered how you were treated.

It mattered to me. And I wasn't afraid to lose my job. You know that that's the worst thing. You don't want to bite back because, you know, oh, well, I'll get fired. Well, you know what, if that gets me fired, standing up for myself, then I'm doing then I'm not in the right place anyway, but it's also Pope of Greenwich Village. That's where I first learned about publicity. Because Shelley Kirkwood, Gene Kirkwood's wife, was a unit publicist, her and Howard Brandy, who was famous-- Howard was a very famous publicist, and they would come to set and every time he would come to set, everybody was like, Ooh, we gotta take care of them. And, you know, and, and, you know, it just created a home and I was like, I wonder what they do. And then, you know, of course, like went up. And so what do you do? And I found out about Felicity, and I thought, that's a really cool job. But it didn't interest me at the time because I thought I wanted to be a producer.

And then so Pope of Greenwich Village, and you worked on another film during that time in New York.

Yeah, Prizzi's Honor, something big. That's actually how I ended up in California. Okay, because John Houston. I mean, that's it. I can't even tell you. I mean, I learned that I have big balls because I can stand up to Jack Houston through my walkie talkie away, because he didn't want me to tell people that that he was coming to set but John Houston and John Foreman who was a producer-- I don't know, I think they saw me as some goofy girl that, you know, just was very earnest and I would always deliver. And so they were coming to shoot out in LA. And they said, if you can find a place to stay, w e'll fly you out there and we will pay you. And so my aunt and uncle lived out here in El Segundo. And that's what happened.

And you call him Jack.

I did call him Jack. Yeah, he called me a pain in the a-- He called me all kinds of things, because I don't think he can remember my name, but that was okay.

You know, that is fantastic. Yeah. But why did he throw your-- He threw your walkie talkie? Yeah, um,

Betty Ann Fishman and I were the two PAs on the show. And, you know, we would run base camp, basically, and then do whatever needed to be done on set. And she was doing something else. So they said, Go get Jack. So I went to get Jack. And then you know, I wanted to be professional. I pulled out my walkie talkie. And I said, Walking to set. And as I said set, he grabbed the walkie talkie, and flung it. And he said, Don't do that. And I'm like, okay. Yeah, I got to set. They said, Where's your walkie talkie? And I'm like, I'm not sure. Man, it was flung. So ther was that.

All right. Oh, my God. That's it. You just take me back to the early the my my PA days.

Yeah, listen, my first job as a PA was a parking PA in Brooklyn where I had to tell people they couldn't park in front of their houses overnight, because the trucks were coming in. And one guy came out and threatened me and said, You know, I'm gonna beat your a-- I started crying. And he said, What are you crying for? I said, because I'm gonna lose my job. And he and I ended up having spaghetti with him and his wife and two kids that night and didn't lose my job. I said, I'm Italian. He said, I'm Italian. So then we were both Italian. That was the end of it. All right.

So Jack Houston gets you out to LA. And how do you end up on Moonlighting?

Um, while I was out here, somebody said, Oh, are you? You know, are you staying here? And I'm like, hell no, I'm going back to New York. That's too, too many blondes people are too slow. Nobody's awake. You know, in New York, you have to be awake, you're walking on the street, you have to, you know what's happening, you're aware you're alive. Here. It's like La la la la. And it just wasn't my vibe, you know, I just couldn't. But they said, Well, you could really work a lot if you came out here. Because you know, you had a little bit of an attitude. And, and you know what, I have a great sense of humor. And again, I wasn't afraid to do something. And if I didn't know how to do it, I'd figure it out or find somebody who could show me. So I was, you know, resourceful, and resilient. And I think that's really important. So ABC Circle Films is who produced Prizzi's Honor. And so I got a call from somebody and they said, there's a new TV show, they just shot a pilot. The actor is going to be very hot. He needs an Assistant. Are you interested? And I'm like, Yeah, okay. I mean, I'll take the meeting. Why wouldn't I, you know, and so I took the meeting, and I walked in the room, and I'm sitting there and then this guy walks in. And I'm like, Bruno, what are you doing here? And he said, Well, what are you doing here? And I said, Well, I don't know. I'm, I'm interviewing with some guy named Bruce. And he said, Well, you idiot. That's me. I knew him as the bartender of Cafe Central, who had a band called Bruno and the something or others. We called him Bruno. I didn't know he was freaking Bruce Willis.

He didn't know he was Bruce Willis at that point!

I, you know, I mean, I knew when he walked in, I'm like, what is happening here? What just happened? Anyway? We were both like, No, I'm not I can't work for you. But apparently, he went to Berlin and said, Could you give her a job? And Glenn gave me the job as the writer secretary. I knew nothing. First of all, I wasn't a very good typist. Oh my God, when I think about it, I don't know if I should be saying this because Glenn's gonna be like, I didn't know that.

What's he going to do about it now?

That's true. And we didn't have computers. So they would type the pages, then they would give them to me with the rewrites, and I cut and paste and copy them and put them all back. And generally that was my that was my job. I don't know how good I was. But they were so nice to me. Um, but not too-- I didn't stay in that position very long, but I'm not surprised. And then I moved into host production, which I really knew nothing about. But yeah, but that's the way it was. I mean, Glenn, and Artie Mandelberg and Jay Daniel. It was kind of like an open door like, Oh, that's interesting. Well, okay, you want to see how that works? You know, and I mean, it was such a crazy place anyway, it was just full of creativity and craziness that, you know, the doors were just open. And it was so wonderful that way, you know, so I took the opportunity to learn what I could were

by any chance to the at the start the only woman in post production at that time?

No, um, Kathy Peacock was the post production coordinator. And then she moved up to supervisor. And then she left to get married, I think, or have a child. But I know, there were a lot of women on our show. That was Glenn. It was just, I think if he liked you if he felt you could do a good job. And if you had that creative thing that spoke to him, because Glenn was just a ball of genius, creativity. I've never met anybody like him. And I've met some serious people. But I've never met anyone like him, who could write the perfect dialogue, come up with the perfect story, find the perfect song, do the perfect casting. It just, and I'm telling you when you're somebody like me from Beaver Falls, Pennsylvania, watching that kind of it really sparks whatever you think you might have had. It just bubbles it up.

It sounds incredibly inspiring. I'm so curious, because clearly, they just gave him a show. Like he hadn't made a show. And then they let them do Moonlighting. Like we were, Sharon and I were like, how did they do that?

Yeah, well, how did they do that? It was all meant to be. It was just symbiosis in full effect. You know? Just, I mean, how did he find these perfect writers? Roger Director. I love that man so much. He was so freakin funny. He was Woody Allen, without the creepy. And, you know, I mean, just, I just think about our DPS. I think about our directors, I think about, you know, Robert Tertre Reese, or costume designer and Bill harp who was our props got, I think about these people, how they, when you watch the show, and you look at it, and it looks like everything is supposed to be there. Nothing looks out of place. Nobody looks out of place. You know, it was it also gave me some lifelong friends. Dennis Dugan and I, we have the same birthday. We just celebrated Super Bowl together the other day, we're close to 40 years. You know, he was Cybil's husband directed. Yeah. All right. And everybody hated Walter Bishop. And they had to figure out I think they killed him off. I don't remember what we did to him. But you know, Dennis had been this amazing actor. Hill Street Blues, and you know, Richie Brockleman and all that stuff, you know, But yeah. So then he started directing. And that's when we really started having fun because he had such a crazy sense of humor. And Glenn, by that point, was becoming, you know, a movie director and giving Michael Keaton, you know, the role of his lifetime in Clean and Sober. Yeah.

So you kind of stayed for the whole year. You were from, you know, just past the pilot to the end of Moonlighting. Is that, yeah, yeah.

I would have never left. I would have stayed for 30 years. I. But, you know, again, when it ended, I had nowhere to go. I didn't have any-- I didn't know where I was going. And Glenn had a deal with Warner Brothers and he said pool, you'll come and work with me. David Willis, myself, Melissa Gelineau We were like, The Three Musketeers. But yeah, Glenn did that or I could house sit for him if he went away to make some money. He always made sure that we were taken care of and then they did a pilot. Artie and Roger Director did a pilot called Mimi and Me and I worked on that. And then when that ended, and it was like, I had nowhere to go and Warner Brothers said, Well, you can work here if you want to be a temp. But that's a whole other story. So

What was it like working in post production on Moonlighting? Because in talking to Glenn, it clearly was all over the place. In some respects, let's say.

Well, production was interesting, simply because they'd be sitting on set waiting for pages. I mean, for post production, I think I was never so tightly wound as I was the night we literally transmitted the show from ABC directly to New York. B ecause there was no time to do whatever. So that one was basically live. Yeah, it was, it was to us it was. Yeah, and that was like, Okay, I don't think we're supposed to do that. But we did it. And it was successful. Because Glenn believed in it, honestly. You know what I mean? And he told us, Ah, don't worry about it. That was Glenn. He was so laissez faire about. It was like, I know, he must have been biting fingernails or pulling his hair out behind closed doors. But he'd walk around, you know, the office with his hands in his pocket. You can hear the change jingling. I thought, Okay. I said to Muffy, Melissa, he's thinking about something. And it's like, okay, they need the pages, they can't do anything. And then the pages would go flying down to the set. Post production. I think back to the editors like Neil Mandelberg and Chris and Phil Neel. I mean, they pulled all nighters. They would sleep in the editing room to get the show on the air, but that's how committed everybody was. And that's how hard everybody worked to make sure that we succeeded and that Glenn succeeded. You know, it was really that's really kind of why it was so wonderful.

We've just started talking to people from Moonlighting, but it definitely seems like it was a like a really fun circus you guys were all doing.

Yeah, we created a circus. Listen one night, I don't know what happened or how it happened. But I remember Clive our transport captain. The next thing I know a few of us were in Cybil's motorhome driving down, having a party driving down Pico Boulevard after we wrapped. We did a parade. A Curtis-- It was Curtis Armstrong day. We did a parade on the lot. We had-- We I think I have video somewhere. But it was Yeah, we had we had people with cheerleaders. Cybil was-- Bruce-- I mean, it was yeah, that's what we did.

Yeah, it sounds like for all of the stress and drama of getting the show on the air sometimes, there was still this opportunity to just have some fun. Yeah, that's fantastic.

Well, and Bruce made it fun. Bruce was so fun. And we just had a great cast. You know, I mean, there were things that weren't fun. But I really think all of us think back to the, to the fun, and the problems we got through them. Okay,

so we're gonna have to take a quick break, because Melissa keeps nodding at me. But we will be right back because we have more questions. And we're back and better than ever. So what was the most challenging part from a post production point of view, in your mind, particular to this show?

I think it was time to be honest with you. Time really was the most challenging because you, you know, we were doing color correction, because we were shooting on film. So I'd be out in the Valley until 6:00, literally 6:00 in the morning, you know, color correcting. I don't know how productive that necessarily was. But we had some fun in that room as well, you know. I mean, what do you do? Right? But the answer for me is time because there wasn't enough of it. And people got burnt out. And, you know, we had to deliver. If you didn't, there was no show. If it wasn't right-- You know, Glenn, oh, boy. You know, you know, it has to be right, you know. So, there were a lot of challenges. But you know, everything we work on is challenging. It's just that back in Moonlighting days, we didn't have all the computers and all the technology that even though it complicates things, it makes a lot of things simpler. But we had such good people that you rarely worried about the quality. I mean, sometimes we'd have a director who should have not been directing. And you know, trying to cut around that. That's the editors. You know, me, I was just there to finesse things and make it really look good and find some music and you know. But it was really on the editors, and they performed some real magic they did, they really did.

And the music speaking of the music, Glenn to 300 needledrops in the 60 episodes.

That was all Glenn. I started working with the editors and Artie, our producer, on music. But Glenn set the tone because the way you get music was interesting, because I didn't know how to do that. But Glenn, I remember we needed Sympathy for the Devil by The Rolling Stones. And it had just come out on CD because CDs were fairly new. And he said, Can you get that for me? I'm like, Yeah, I know. I know. I mean, what the hell's a CD? So um, but I used to listen to KROQ. So I called the radio station. And Jed the Fish who was a very famous DJ at the time, answered the phone. And I said, Hi, you know, I'm calling my name is Cheryl. I'm calling from Moonlighting. He goes, where I said Moonlighting. He said, That's my favorite show in the world. I said, Oh, I need, I need a CD for Sympathy for the Devil. He brought it over the next day. And then he became our biggest fan, always talked about Moonlighting. Freddy Snakeskin DJ'd a couple of our parties. You know, anyway, yeah. Oh, my God, the power? No.

I'm just thinking of the 80s.

I'm so glad you did this. It's so funny.. That would not happen now. You call in--

Not the radio station anymore, right? We're starting from there. But no one's no

one's at any office, apparently.

All corporate and fed in from somewhere else. And they rarely-- Anyway, we could go on for days about that too. But that's the beauty of the podcast too. We can talk as as much as we want.

I love editing. And you talked about Dennis Dugan and Glenn Gordon Caron. What other relationships came out of Moonlighting for you. David

Willis and I stayed in contact. I love those guys. I love their mom. You know, they're just good people, good Jersey people. His brother Robert was somebody that we all knew and loved as well. You know, Melissa Gelineau, her and I are besties. And her husband. And I ran into Buffy Schneider who was one of the costumers. She was doing something for the IATSE. And I was at one of the meetings and she goes, I'm Buffy Schneider. And I'm like, Oh, my God, Buffy, you know, so I run into Moonlighting people. Maybe four years ago, we did a Moonlighting gathering. It was the first one we'd done. I think it was 20 years since the show had gone off the air. And we all met Glenn and Roger and the writers and David. Bruce wasn't there because he was out of town. I think Curtis came. But yeah, I keep in touch with quite a few people. They became lifelong friends.

What changed for you during that time? I mean, you went from being kind of an assistant to the supervisor of post production?

Well, I think what happened is I realized that if you do the work, and you get noticed, by the right people, you can actually survive. I just tried to do the best job that I could. I tried to connect with folks that had the same, I don't know, vibe, as I did, basically, for lack of a better word. I wasn't interested in being, you know, running the world or being the greatest. I just wanted to do a good job. I wanted to do that job. I wanted to be doing it on something that I liked with people that I could care about. Not all of them. Again, and I don't even like all my family. So I'm not going to like everybody that I work with on a show. But you know what I'm saying. So, I think for me, you know, all of it just really kind of helped me. I wasn't a very confident person. I was ballsy, but not confident. I wasn't afraid, but I learned to be a little bit smarter, to think smarter, and I learned to play the game. And that was the most crucial because I-- In the very beginning I took people for what they said or at face value and I really learned some tough lessons. And I thought, huh, okay, you want to play? I love Playing games. I can play. I'm good. And you know what, I started having fun with it, rather than sending me home crying, or you know, me saying, You know what this isn't for me. It was for me. What wasn't for me is the crap that people tried to feed me. Or people will try to take you down because they were jealous, or they just didn't know that there's room for everybody. You don't have to be afraid of that. There's room for all of us. There just is. So at any rate, you know, it was it was life lessons. And everything that I've done has been a real life lesson that now that I'm at this stage in my life. I just feel really fortunate.

That is so great. Well,

so when you started off in, in this crazy business, as I like to call it, working on the feature side, then came here and worked in television. And after Moonlighting ended, had you formed any idea in your mind about which you preferred? Or did that not matter as far as you were concerned at that point? That's

another good question. I don't think I thought about it. It wasn't by design. And I think because of my experience on Moonlighting, because it was like shooting a film, every week, or every 10 days, or whatever we were doing, that I didn't, I didn't have enough experience to know that there was a difference. And then once I did start working at Warner Brothers, then, you know, everything became feature oriented, because I was, you know, I was assigned features. I mean, that's I was in the international film publicity department, to

Moonlighting very famously had a lot of challenges with actors getting along and actors getting along with Glenm Gordon Caron. And actresses-- What was your experience?

She's fishing, Cheryl, she's fishing.

Whatever dynamic happened in terms of people arguing or maybe disagreein, it was always creative. It wasn't personal. And now there were times when certain people were going through personal things, and it became public. And so that makes it even harder. But my experience was that Glenn was the godfather. And yes, you get pissed off at him, and maybe confront him on a certain level. But it always had to be about something. Not just because you were feeling like you could have a tantrum, or you weren't feeling love that day, or that kind of thing, you know, so I never felt that it was any of that. And you know, what, again, sometimes I was Pollyanna, I could have been totally off, you know, off on that. But that's my experience. And not because I want to sugarcoat it, because, you know, I know the reality. I know what happened there. But my takeaway was just that everybody really wanted it to be good. That just wasn't always good. For

gun did actually say the very same thing that yeah, ultimately, it was about the work. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Oh, good. I'm glad. No, yes. Yeah. But it was not. It was, oh boy.

Well, and it's this, it was big personalities, doing creative work. In a very hot pot.

There was a lot of ego involved. And that's a big problem. But, you know, we work in an industry where there are I mean, you know, it's a narcissistic world. There's a lot of things and people that become affected by it.

Well, it's so interesting, because you've gone on to continue to work with really, really big personalities.

Yeah.

So did you grew up with big personalities,

I would say, I grew up in a big Italian family. So they were loud, and opinionated. I was always the one that just sat there and watched like, I was watching a movie. You know, I just but I learned to talk. So big personalities, perhaps, but more that we just did stuff we just, you know went for it. I never thought about well, what's going to happen if that doesn't work? I don't know that that's a good thing. But that's how I worked and and then you would find out. It wasn't always the positive thing but you know what life is That's what happens in life. So, yes, yes. All

right. So let's talk about your transition to publicity. And what drew you

there. Again, I was having the best time. You know, Glenn's deal closed and everybody left the Warner Brothers lot. Warner Brothers said, Oh, if you want to be here, you can go into the temp pool. I did not know what that was. I had been in post production supervisor. If there had been another Season, I would have been associate producer, right? Yeah. And I thought, okay, I mean, Warner Brothers. I'm on the lot. Okay. Oh, okay. So they called me and said, we have a job for you. And the glass building, which was a new building, and you'll be a receptionist. And I'm like, okay, so I went, and I sat in this big desk, the phone never rang. Nobody ever asked me anything. I was there for three days. And it was just people moving. And I'm like, Oh, I don't, I would go home and cry, honestly. You know, I would, I would think to myself, You are the

post production supervisor of Moonlighting!

From that, I was like that I don't know what to do. I did not have a plan. So I didn't have, Okay, well, I don't need to do this. I can go do that. I was letting things carry me along. And it's when I realized that sometimes you have to take a few steps backwards to go forwards. Because I got a call from the temp girl and she said, I have a job for you. It's open ended. See, you know, but it's an international publicity. I'm like, Okay, I didn't really know what that was. But I like international. I knew a publicist, Shelley Kirkwood, from the Pope of Greenwich Village days. But anyway, I went there. And it was a whole different world, something I'd never experienced, where you were, in a creative world of people throwing out ideas and doing junkets and set visits to the sets. And I started out as the temp, then I became, they hired me almost two weeks later, I became a junior publicist. And then they made me a senior publicist. And that's when I took over my own films. So there were two of us. And we would split 20 films between the two of us. And I ended up getting like Steven Seagal, Clint Eastwood. And she was getting the animated movies and the girl, the chick flicks, and I'm like, Whoa, wait a minute. I want the chick flicks. And you know, all that stuff. And, you know, until I met Sly. And then I was like, Oh, I get it. Because then I realized that it was my personality, and my lack of fear that kind of made me kind of nonchalant, like, Hey, this is the job. I'm this is what you got to do today. And if you don't want to do it, I'll tell the student you don't want to do it. But honestly, I think you should do it. It's your movie. If you don't do it, who's going to do it? Right. So I kind of found my superpower, which was being logical and, and strategic at the same time, which doesn't always go hand in hand. And so yeah, I had a blast at Warner Brothers. I traveled the world. I, you know, and I met Arnold

Schwarzenegger. And

Then everything really changed. Yes,

This is for our listeners.

Mr. Stallone? Yeah,

I'm sorry. Okay, I'm enjoying it. And, you know, and Arnold is Arnold Schwarzenegger. Because, you know, of course, two biggest action stars in history. And you!

I mean, you know, what, it was kind of what I had carved out for myself without knowing it. Actually, somebody else carved it out. For me. Putting people together wasn't an organic thing. It was a strategic thing, I guess, you know. And so, yeah, I lucked out. I hit the I hit the jackpot.

Well, and you had the chops to handle the situation. Yeah.

So can you talk a little bit more about what it is that a unit publicist does.

So, before COVID and whatnot, you know, we would coordinate the set visits where you'd actually bring press to the set and they would do interviews and, you know, with the talent, you'd circle, cycle them in and out and you could Create events like on 300 when I was in Bulgaria, and they were bringing the Hollywood Foreign Press-- you know, the Golden Globes folks-- over to do the interviews with the talent. It was like, I got to create, I got, you know, I asked the costume designer, can you give me some wardrobe? And? And can we have some props? And can we do this, and we created a whole experience. So that was fun, you know. I got to do that on Terminator. And on Expendables. And, you know, you it, I realized that, wow, you get to use your creative juices to help the studio sell the product while you're in production. Because once you're out of production, you don't, you can't go back, you know, and that's why we have behind the scenes-- They call it EPK, it's kind of a misnomer. But we have DP shooting stuff behind the scenes. And you have the unit photographer who captures these beautiful, wonderful images. And then you have the unit publicist that coordinates all of that and takes what the studio wants, and makes it happen within the confines of the production, because each production is really different. All the talent is different, what they want, what they don't want, what they'll do, what they won't do, you know. Not every producer or director understood the value of capturing all of that information, you know, in production.You know, and the unit publicist's job is to make sure that you gather this content, you create this content, but you don't impact production. That everybody feels comfortable. So, I mean, that's the part of the job-- we write the production notes as well. So we tell the story from being on production point of view, and getting quotes and anecdotal stuff that you wouldn't really know about if you weren't there. So that's kind of in a nutshell. I don't know that that's a great explanation. But I told you all the fun things. Yeah.

As the unit publicist, would you be the one that comes up with the plan for the content you want to get and how you want to do it? Like you mentioned, the, the arrangements you made on 300.

You know, it's a partnership with studio. So, you know, they'll say, this is what we're hoping to get. And then you let them know what, you know, what the constraints are for that, or what you can make happen or give some alternative ideas, you know, if that won't necessarily work. So it does become where you work, most of the time, very closely with the PR departments at the studios. And, and the personal publicists. You know, because you can't really do anything with talent without the personal publicist being involved and nor should you. But it really is a collaboration. And I love that part of it as well. And so you have to know when to, you know, speak up, you know, and also when to shut up. There's that.

I'm usually good at one of those.

I'm usually get them at the same time.

Well, and also, then you have to keep up with production schedule, just in case there's something exciting happening, actually, you know, stunts or music or whatever. If there's something exciting happening on the day, you have to be there to cover it. Exactly. Yeah.

I think that's one of the reasons I became such a good unit publicist is because I had the background of how a studio works and what they need to function. And, you know, I mean, to me, that was just that was a gift being at Warner Brothers. Because, you know, when I started working with unit publicists, I thought, Oh, yeah. And then when I became one, I'm like, Oh, yeah. It all helped. That's great. Oh, it really did. There was always something that I could take away that I think just made me smarter in terms of how I could function on set.

And what were some of your favorite projects that you worked on, both at Warner Brothers as an executive, and then in your early days?

Wow, at WarnerBrothers, you know, I was so lucky. I mean, I worked on Unforgiven, which blew my mind. I worked on Fearless, which was a movie that haunts me still. It was Jeff Bridges about an airplane crash. And I'm I'm blanking Rosie Perez, Perez, powerful, powerful movie. I mean, I really had fun at Warner Brothers, because I was people like Nancy Kirkpatrick who, who she's the reason I met Arnold, but you know, they would look at the slate and you know, say Well, I think she'd be better at this one. You know, doing this one then this one. I got some lightweight stuff and I wasn't very good at it. I need a challenge. I have to say it I want to challenge I want somebody to like make me go for it. And you know, I'd like people to tell me no so that I can go. Oh, yeah, yeah.

That was your training from Moonlighting.

Yeah, well, there's there's that.

But speaking of Fearless, I remember that scene where he is going to prove to her that she couldn't have held her baby. Like I, I will always remember that scene. Yeah. Yeah. So vividly.

Peter Weir.

Yeah. You've also worked with some young stars or unknowns or people that were just popping. I mean, it sounds like your favorite is, you know, the big gorillas. But, you know, what's it like? What how do you what's your approach different when you have sort of Schwarzenegger versus a kid who did a great Sundance film and now is, you know, doing their next?

I don't think that, for me, there isn't a difference. Every it's, it's, it's a movie. It's a, you know, there's a job to be done. And, you know, I generally, really, really am fond of the people that I'm working with. I mean, The Perks of Being a Wallflower was probably, I forgot about that. And I loved working on that movie so much. And the kids as I call them, you know. I mean, Emma she was one of the biggest stars ever. And Ezra was the sweetest, kindest. The whole cast looked up to him, because he was such a good actor. He was so good that, you know, they just, we all fell in love with him. And, but I don't, I think I do a little more mentoring with them. Like I taught, I did some media training with most of them. But my approach, honestly, is, they're all actors. 'Cause I think if my thought about it, I'd get freaked out. You know, I think, okay, that's Arnold, or that's Sly. These are people. I'm like, Ah! But I don't. There's my actor that I'm working with, and they need to do a job and I need to do a job. And so I think that's kind of what gets me through. Really, again, I get caught up in the movie making, because that's, you know, I'm just always just so in awe of the work that they do. You know, seriously.

Are there ways in which the work that you do has changed for the good or for the not-so-good over the years?

Well, I think some of the change was our fault. Because, you know, there are only maybe 50 unit publicists. I mean, in the guild, I think there's around 300, publicists, that includes studio and whatnot. Unit publicists are very, very, very small. And our skill set is different. But what we learned a few years ago is that you have to come together. You can talk about this-- Unit publicists never wanted to talk about their rates. I mean, I had one person say to me, I didn't know you could ask for more than the minimum. And I'm like, you've been doing this for 15 years. How did you not know that?

Oh, my goodness.

Yeah, stuff like that, right? So we have become much more cohesive as a group now, here we communicate more. We started the Unit Publicists Council within the guild so that we had a voice because we're the only ones that work on set. We're the only on-call employees. You know, we we get affected when there's a shutdown; the studio doesn't. The studio pubs, they work. They-- And bless their hearts, I'm glad they do because they contribute to the health and pension in our, and our health care stays strong because of you know, the people that work for years, you know, and contribute. So, but yeah, we, we're learning to talk more about what we do and to fight back when they want to bring on a social media person with an iPhone to not only do my job but to do the unit photographers job. And that's a hell no. Well, but if they belong to the actor-- Well, then the actor needs to hire somebody, and the job will get done. So we have to be vigilant and we have to remind people that when there's an accident on set, and you have somebody like a unit publicist, it's something that you can't buy with our expertise and how to handle the press and how to get people to calm down. At Local 600 when Halyna Hutchins was killed on set, you know, on Rust, our DP, we created a war room. And, you know, because I was a unit publicist, I understood what was happening on set while everybody else understood what was helping you know what needed to happen with-- So we could create messaging and to do the right thing and you know that kind of thing. So, I always see a unit publicist is just the most helpful person because we know so much and, and we can dive in and we can, you know, move fast. And that's the power that unit publicists bring to everything. I think.

That's pretty great. Yeah. Oh. So we talked to Glenn Gordon. Caron.

You got the big kahuna. Yeah. That's awesome. Yeah. Well, Glenn's a storyteller, so I'm sure there was no lack of anything because he can tell a story and he's funny. I mean, he's just a so any any self self deprecating sometimes. It's like, Oh, my God, one of the, you know, this guy who just like changed everything in TV. Really, when you think about the stuff that we did, from the Shakespeare, Atomic Shakespeare to the black and white show. I mean, we all thought that we killed, um--

Orson Welles.

We thought we killed him. No We felt so bad. He died right afterwards.

You gave him one last--

I think you gave-- So you were on set with Orson Welles.`

Yes, I was actually I, I went over and spoke to him. Because that's Orson Welles. You kidding me? Yeah. I mean, I don't, you know, and I'm not really that outgoing. But I was like, Hi, my name's Sheryl, and I we're just so excited about-- And I was just an idiot, but it was okay. I mean, he was like, Okay, thank you. Where are my lines? We were all so mesmerized, you know, but that was Moonlighting, that was Glenn. I mean, you know, the Billy Joel song. And then he had, you know, he had the dancer Stanley Donen. I mean, Oh, holy crap, I mean, the crap that was going on, and we're like, our heads are exploding.

And looking back on it, and remembering just how different it was from anything else that there was on television for a long time. And nevertheless, the audience just loved it. Really, really loved it. I mean, I can't tell you as, as we've been meeting some of the people that as we tell them about the podcast are there. And everybody says, everybody says, Are you going to do Moonlighting? Wow, before this came up.

So unusual. I mean, they really broke the fourth wall.

There's a lot of things I don't know that anybody has done since. And, you know, just-- Anyway, it--

I don't think they could. And, you know, I mean, listen, there were conversations with the studio. I mean, when you're spending a million dollars or whatever, you got some serious conversations. And, you know, you see when the door slams, and Glenn's in his office, like, okay. And then he'd come out with the hands in his pockets, jingling the change, and you know, everything was fine, because they knew they bought into a creative process. And we delivered 90% of the time. There were there were a couple episodes that it just because of what was happening, it just became really hard. But and you know, our fans, were really vocal. Aye-yai-yai. We didn't really have the internet, the you know, too much there. And, but our fans were very vocal. And that's how Dennis Dugan got the no Walter Bishop. And then, you know, the baby dying or the, you know, the miscarriage, whatever it was. It was like, wow, we're really tackling some serious stuff here. And people are paying attention. And is it entertainment? To a certain extent, but it was, I don't know, it was also life lessons, you know?

Because that show just was so singular. There is a lot of heart to the show. It is very sincerely done both in its goofiness and in its loveliness.

And willingness to go places and do things, because somebody had an idea. This is great. Let's try this.

It really was like, let's go, let's go out to the barn and put on a show. And we did. And you know, yeah. So again, I mean, when you have that kind of experience, it really stays with you forever. You know, it just does because it really informs so much. And if I hadn't had that, I'm not sure I really could have been able to sustain a career in this business. But I was fortunate that people that came into my life always made me feel like I belong there, and I could do it and that I was a part of some thing that I'd be really proud of. Wow. I mean, that's a bonanza.

Susan Lambert Hatem 1:00:05
Wow. That's very nice. Do, I mean I, I know he's not that well, do you keep up? Were you keeping up with Bruce Willis? Did you guys stay friends?

Sheryl Main 1:00:18
I hadn't seen Bruce. I read it. Well, I'll tell you the last time I saw Bruce was on Expendables, and we came to Los Angeles, and we did it scene in a church with Arnold, Bruce, and Sly. And it's the three guys that impacted-- If Glenn had been there would have been the four, right? But they all had impacted my career and my life in different ways, but very, very much so. And I have the greatest picture of the three of them, you know, I'm standing with the three of them. Arnold's looking at me, and I'm going like this, like, you know, I don't know how I ended up here. And it's Bruce and Sly. And it was, but it really kind of encapsulated so much that moment. And Bruce, you know, I, we were somewhere and I told him, You know, I said, Look, I wouldn't even had a career without you. Because you went to Glenn and said, give her a job and, and I said, You were he was always supportive. And, and so I, it's heartbreaking. This is a guy who could memorize his lines in a minute, and who was just a craftsman with words. You know, Glenn's a wordsmith, but Bruce knew how to craft those words and turn them into a character. And that part is heartbreaking. Because it just doesn't seem very fair, does it?

No. No, because, yeah. Yeah. It's tough. Hard stuff. Speaking of hard stuff, you went and worked for the governor's office.

Another one of those things that wasn't, that was not on my bingo card, but I went.

So do you really get a call? Yeah, from your friend, Arnold.

Yeah, I had been at his house for his birthday party. And he told Bonnie and myself that he and Maria that he wasn't going to run. And we were like, thank God, because, you know, we were getting ready to go do another movie, right. And then the next day went on Jay Leno, and said, I'm running. And so I worked on the campaign a little bit, I didn't really believe in it. I didn't think that somebody with a million dollars should be able to recall somebody who was duly elected. But that wasn't my call. That was, you know, so yeah. One day I got a call. I was on set. And he said, so why don't you come up here? And I'm like, Okay. And I became the deputy communications director. And then, you know, I took on some other roles. But yeah, I did that. I did that with a bunch of Republicans. I'm not-- Not that I'm a Democrat. I'm a nothing, I don't I don't-- I vote but I don't, I don't believe in two-party systems. So there was a whole lot of learning going on there for me.

Sharon Johnson 1:03:34
How long did you do that? How long did you work for him?

I went in with him when he first started. And I left in July of 2007. Because politics is very interesting. But I started really not liking some of the reasons for doing things. And Arnold really was great, because he always wanted to make sure that things were being done right, and that he was listening to the right people. Because you get up there, we thought, hey, we're gonna go change the world. And then you get up there and you realize the mechanism that is in place, doesn't want you to change the world. Because if you change the world, they're not going to have a job. Or they can't tell other people what to do. It was it was a little weird, but you know, Arnold surrounded himself with old friends and people that he trusted, and he had Maria. Maria could level that playing field in five seconds, people. Nobody knows more than she does. Nobody's been through it more than she has. Nobody was a fiercer supporter of Arnold than she was. And you know, love for California. So I mean, you know, he he had a really good team behind him, but it It was a struggle sometimes. And I just couple things happened where I thought, you know, I did this, I'm happy. I'm fortunate. I, I learned a lot. And it made me get more involved in local politics, especially where I live. I got really involved after that. So, you know, I enjoyed it. And for California Grown, I helped put together a trip to China, where they actually decided to buy our strawberries. It was things like that that were gratifying. And you could see how you could do really good work. But the flip side was the bad actors who weren't going to let you do the good work. And I think we're seeing that more and more now, which is really sad.

Did it change the way that you approach movie publicity?

Well, I'll tell you what happened. It changed the way people approached political publicity. I think because people were dealing with one of the biggest stars in the world, who is now the governor of the third largest economy in the world, you learn that everybody in politics wants to be in the movies, and everybody in the movies wants to be in politics. And it was a little bit of a clown car every once in a while. But I think because, again, Arnold had good people around him, Arnold is a good person, and he had Maria, that even when he would make a mistake, he would figure it out. And and make it right, you know. So my experience was really, really good until it wasn't. And it wasn't because of him. It was because of other people that came in and I just wasn't willing to compromise myself that way. I didn't have to. I hope that doesn't sound too weird.

No,it's in-- And listen, I, you know, we're asking you about stuff that, you know, is, is a little bit off of Moonlighting and 80s TV Ladies, but it's interesting to us.

But it's part of the it's part of the your journey. And that's what we're really here to talk about today. So--

I appreciate that.

Yeah, absolutely.

And so since you are also like, it's, it sounds like you also have some crisis management publicity experience. I do. Okay. I have not that any of us are ever going to be in that kind of trouble.

You never know.

But what's your top advice when things go wrong in a public way?

Well, it depends. But most of the time, it's don't say anything until we can figure out what you need to say if anything.

Yeah, very good advice.

You know, people think they have to respond. You know? And that's where you get in trouble. When somebody asks you a question, first of all, you have to ask yourself, you know, do I need to answer this? Do I need to answer it now? And you know, why? I mean, what, where's it gonna get you? It's, but again, people get nervous. They get anxious and they think they can be helpful. That's when you really get nuts.

Any other amazing ladies that you worked with? Who's the most fun, most surprising?

You know what I fell in love with Alyce Beasley. She just was that kind heart and she was Agnes DiPesto. I don't know how Glenn figured that one out, but she was Agnes DiPesto. Melissa Gelineau, who was the producer's assistant, who knew-- I mean, she was there from day one. And she's, you know, amazing. And Deb Frank, smart, great writer. You know, we had a nice group of women on that show. We really did. Like I said, Glenn, it wasn't a guy show on set. I mean, it wasn't all guys. It was we didn't have any female DPs or directors, but, you know, back in the 80s, that wasn't going to happen.

But you did have a lot of ADs, female ADs. So somebody was doing that on purpose.

Yes, and it worked because that's what you need, right.

Any stories we haven't heard because we apparently have to stop talking.

Now they should stop talking. Because the stories you haven't heard are the stories I can't tell.

What are you doing now? What's coming up?

I am the Communications Consultant for the International Cinematographers Guild. I also am the publicist for the California IATSE Council, and I'm doing media training for the IATSE for their surrogates who will be out there speaking about the contract negotiation.

Melissa Roth 1:09:57
Oh, that's excellent. Yeah.

I also work With the Stone Cold Steve Austin who I met on Expendables, I love him. Oh my god. I love that guy. So yeah, that's me.

Well, thank you so much for taking time with us and telling all your stories, and it's just so great to meet you through Zoom.

Oh, I just love you guys. I mean, seriously, I think this is so great. I'm like, embarrassed that you asked me. I'm like, boy, you couldn't find anybody else.

Melissa Roth 1:10:27
No, Sheryl, You're an important 80s TV lady.

Absolutely.

You're our first publicist.

Exactly. Our first post production.

Oh, you guys are awesome. Melissa, thank you so much. All right, guys. Peace out.

For today's Audiography, check out the Moonlighting podcast at MoonlightingthePodcast.com.

And the hosts of that podcast, Grace and Shawna have just come out with a new book, Moonlighting An Episode Guide. Check it out. Thank you all so much for joining us here at 80s TV Ladies. Get ready for more moonlighting strangers that we meet on the way. Who knows who will show up? But our next Episode will be featuring our delightful friends who keep us very much on our toes, the 90s TV babies. Tune in.

As always, we hope 80s TV Ladies brings you joy and laughter and lots of fabulous new and old shows to watch all of which will lead us forward toward being amazing ladies of the 21st century.

80s TV Ladies Theme Song 1:11:36
80s TV Ladies, so sexy and so pretty. 80s TV Ladies, steppin’ out into the city. 80s TV Ladies, often treated kind of sh#*ty. Working hard for the money in a man’s world. 80s TV Ladies!
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Episode 228: “Moonlighting Magic | Sheryl Main”

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