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8TL_219_Designing Women with Linda Bloodworth-Thomason, Pt. 2

Melissa Roth: Welcome to 80s TV Ladies. Part of the Weirding Way Media Network.

Amy Englehardt: 80s TV Ladies, so sexy and so pretty. 80s TV Ladies, steppin’ out into the city. 80s TV Ladies, often treated kind of sh#*ty. Working hard for the money in a man’s world. 80s TV Ladies!

Melissa Roth: Hello, friends. Welcome to 80s TV Ladies, where we explore female driven television shows from the 1980s and celebrate the people who made them. Here are your hosts, Sharon Johnson and Susan Lambert Hatem.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Hello, I'm Susan.

Sharon Johnson: And I'm Sharon. Welcome to part two of our discussion with the creator of Designing Women, Linda Bloodworth-Thomason

Susan Lambert Hatem: You can start listening here if you want, but you can also go back and listen to part one if you want, all the great stories. And we're just gonna jump right back into the discussion. We love where these conversations go. And in particular, your voice is so important and has been so important in television.

Linda Bloodworth-Thomason: But Designing Women is what we're here for.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Yeah. And so speaking of her relationship with Gerald McRaney.

Linda Bloodworth-Thomason: Oh, Delta.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Yeah.

Linda Bloodworth-Thomason: Yes. He's devoted to her and he's her ballast in life. You know, Delta's very fragile in many ways. For all of her sass in her acting, you know, she needs someone really by her side, a very protective kind of person. And he, that's his role in life that he loves. So it's just very lucky, you know, that they met. It's funny, everybody who came on our show, like these men would come on our show, like Gerald McRaney or Richard Gilliland, and then we wouldn't see them again, like for the rest of the week because they're in, you know, the actress dressing room. And go, what's going on? I mean, what kind of a place is this? And I mean, people were just falling in love like, you know, some kind of substance in the air that was making people keel over. Anyway, there was a lot of romance on Designing Women. We were on stage 26, which if you look up the history of stage 26, some of the most important big-shouldered-broad movies were shot there. And all of these actors like Bette Davis and Rosalind Russell. I mean, Bette Davis in Jezebel was there. We always felt like, oh, there's something in the ether here, you know, these, the spirit of these women is still here. Because we didn't really plan any kind of big-shouldered attitude, you know, that wasn't any intent. But I guess it was kind of in the writing. But then it was really also in the women, you know, and they probably didn't even know how much. They had a certain camaraderie with all those kinds of women who inhabited the big screen and really you know, they were very alluring to girls who wanted to emulate them. And I think those four actresses caught a dose of that.

Susan Lambert Hatem: I love that. So this is on Warner Brothers lot, right? Is that where you shot?

Linda Bloodworth-Thomason: Yes. Yes, it was. And at first, we did not. We had the cast that we wanted. Meshach was not in the pilot, but, you know, we had put Jean and Annie in a show that we were doing with Robert Wagner and John standing called, Lime Street. And we had this one episode that took place in Amsterdam. Harry was directing. And we needed these diamond thieves who were women, and they were funny and silly, and they were goofy friends and in jail together. Anyway, it was Fran Bascom, Jean Smart, Annie Potts. I didn't even know them. And they were so brilliant in that episode that, you know, and that that show was canceled. But that's the gift that we got from it. And, so when I was going to do Designing Women, you know, Fran said, brought in Dixie, who I didn't even know existed. I'm sorry, you know what? I've told this story wrong. No, I was thinking of my first casting session with Dixie. That all did happen. Yeah, but that was for Filthy Rich. And when Dixie left the room, I mean, that was the greatest casting day of my life. When she left the room, I just turned to Fran and said, I don't know, Fran, where you found her, but I want her for everything from now on, every part. She just was so entertaining, so hilarious, such an exotic flower, you know, and, I mean, just charming beyond, you know, anybody. So that was a done deal. And then she brings in Delta. I'd never met anybody like Delta. First of all, when she was first cast, she was probably the most beautiful woman I have ever seen. And later on that year, I think it was Richard Scavullo, the famous, world-famous photographer, named her as one of the ten most beautiful women in the world. And she really was. I mean, she was like Elizabeth Taylor. And oddly enough, Elizabeth Taylor fell in love with the show and wanted to come on and play Delta's mother, but that didn't work out for reasons that we--

Susan Lambert Hatem: I was gonna say, wait, that-- Did that happen. No.

Linda Bloodworth-Thomason: I don't think anybody knows that. It never came to fruition. But anyway, fell in love with Delta. then Fran finds Jean and Annie in Lime Street, and, Fran said, why don't you put them together? And I went, oh, brilliant idea. So we did. Now, here was the hitch. CBS would not approve Delta. And so that was really a blow because she was inexperienced. Except for Filthy Rich, she really hadn't done a lot of comedy, and Filthy Rich was pretty broad, you know, and a little bit cartoony. I didn't want to do that. I wanted to do it for that show. But I knew I wanted Designing Women to be more relatable and less broad. And so, anyway, they just would not approve her. So we cast another actress. Heartbreakingly, it did not work, and I knew it wasn't going to work, but, you know, I had no choice. I had three people I loved. And so the week that we were shooting the pilot, you know, we had a runthrough, and it was just not happening with this actress. And so, I think it was three days before we were shooting the pilot. Anyway, I called Delta and I said, get over here. And she said, what? When? And I said, now. And she said, I'm, in my pajamas. I said, I don't care. Get in your car and head here. The network is here. You're going to get your tryout. So she came, she performed, they let her be in it. And thank God. You can tell in the pilot, I think, that as you can in almost all pilots, people have not found their-- They're in a swimming pool and they haven't found the concrete yet where they can plant their feet. They're kind of swimming around. Delta is swimming the hardest, and you can see that, but she's still funny as hell and, you know, and looks like a million bucks. And so it all kind of worked, I think.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Absolutely. That's so crazy. So she wasn't on that show until three days before you shot.

Linda Bloodworth-Thomason: Before we shot it. Right. And I just was so grateful that they weren't, you know, CBS gave in. They didn't have anybody else. You know, we were lucky because they don't understand the Southern thing, and they didn't have anybody who spoke Southern, who they thought was funny. And so they really couldn't keep messing with us, you know. ‘Cause Delta was just standing there saying, I'm available, I'm available. I don't really think they thought it was gonna work with her. But then after the pilot was shot, they totally saw, you know, what we had.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Okay, I was gonna say, and then they saw it, and then they were like, yeah, that's what we wanted anyway.

Linda Bloodworth-Thomason: Yes, that was what they wanted. They just didn't know it. They had only seen her in a casting situation. They hadn't seen her interact with the rest of the women. And that was the other thing that saved her was the chemistry was so perfect. And she and Dixie, just right out of the shoes, you know, it was like, oh, they were born to be sisters and they were born to spar and born to love each other and they just had, you know, they had the chemistry that was necessary for that relationship.

Susan Lambert Hatem: That is fantastic. And so once you shot that pilot, we were like, we've got it. I mean, we got to fix some things. Everybody's got to find their feet. But did you feel like I've got the show that is going to go?

Linda Bloodworth-Thomason: I absolutely did. But, unfortunately there was a president, this was not the president who originally raised the white flag when we got canceled. The initial president of CBS, when we were trying to get on the air was a gentleman who didn't really love the show. But Harvey Shepherd had ok'd the show and it was shot and it was expensive and everybody around him liked it and so he didn't love it. He never believed in it. And then we went to the upfronts in New York and he got up and by then the press had all seen it. And he got up at the upfront and apologized before they had already seen it in their, you know-- We had already sent it out to them, but at the upfront, you know how they do trailers and have the cast there and everything. And he got up and apologized for the show and the-- And this was a really unusual thing that a lot of people in the press booed him because they loved it. and so, and he, and he wasn't really a bad guy. I'm not going to say who he is because I actually like the guy that he just didn't get it at first. And so he went, okay, you know, to each his own, if you all like it. Hey, you know, I'm not going to discourage it. But I've never even seen anybody do that at an upfront, like get up and kind of trash their own show. But I think he was embarrassed by it because he didn't really get it. Okay, so then we premiere. We premiered to incredible reviews. You know, it was just really almost unanimous. Everybody fell in love with the cast, loved the show. Never, you know, never had anything quite like this, you know, with these Southern women and they're really smart and sexy and they're feminists. But the one thing I tried to do, and I told Fran this, you know, you've got to find me, when we were initially talking about it-- Because I knew I wanted to write a show about Southern women, I said, they've got to be really, really beautiful, Fran. They've got to be so good looking because they're going to be saying horrible stuff about men. I want to make the men want them. and so they won't be so offensive to men. And so that's what we got to. Anyway, that's what the critics were all saying. You know, these women are so attractive, and they're feminists, but you love them. So then we go on and, you know, they jerk us around because the president kept changing slot. I think we would change three different slots, which you just really can't do with a new show. So he canceled it. And then the new president came in, who was Bud Grant. And Bud liked the show, and he was really reasonable and the Viewers for Quality Television and Harry saved it. And that's why he raised the white flag. And I was in Missouri then, because by then, you know, my mother had passed away. And it was a horrible, horrible, worst period of my life. and Harry had been in Missouri with me, but he came back out here to do that. And so we, you know, we got, a reprieve from the governor, so to speak. And from then on, it never really faltered. You know, once we, once people started tuning in, the audience got bigger and bigger every week. And we were not just strong in the South. In fact, a couple of our biggest audiences every week were in Boston and San Francisco. I think San Francisco because the gay community embraced the show from the very start. I never did understand why Boston loved Designing Women so much, but they did. It's just one of those quirky things.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Wow. Okay, so you've got this show, and did you just get to come up with whatever you wanted to talk about?

Linda Bloodworth-Thomason: You know, the strange thing about Designing Women is that I was never a script ahead because, like I said, in May when I got the green light, or April, I guess, was when my mom came out here. My mother had had open heart surgery several years before and received a large dose of contaminated blood. And so it was a big infusion of AIDS. You know, there was no question that she was going to last very long, but we didn't know she had AIDS because the hospital that gave her AIDS refused to diagnose her. They just kept saying, you have hepatitis. You know, they didn't want to be responsible. There was a lawsuit that followed and all of that. But what happened was, you know, she came out here, and within a few hours of landing, I had her at a specialist. And he came out and said, your mother has AIDS. So that was a really, really hard blow. And I had written the pilot, of course, but I'd written no episodes. And now we're-- Now we're in it, you know, now we're-- We're fighting. Remember back then? I mean, we at the hospital, and nobody wants to treat us. Nobody wants to come in the room with her. People have forgotten. Everybody was in a mask. I was in a space suit, you know, with my mom, practically, I mean, often in surgical gear. If I held her hand with a rubber glove. And the hospital staff was very inept at, I mean, we had wonderful medical care, but the attitude was terrible. You know, I mean, they clearly didn't want to have her there. They weren't an AIDS hospital. They didn't want to touch her. And so this became a battle. And finally the whole hospital was called together, and they were reprimanded. I mean, the nursing staff, they were reprimanded for the way that my mom and others were treated. There were 17 young men on the ward, and my mother. And it was so sad, because some of the, you know, some of the really-- I thought of them as boys, you know, they were younger than me. I was in my thirties, and they would just die, you know, without family or anybody there. I remember one guy who died, you know, during Wheel of Fortune, and no one was in the room with him. It was horrible. And, because I would sit out in the TV room, you know, maybe I remember his room was across the hall, and some nurse came and announced that he was dead. and I thought, what a horrible-- I don't know what happened to his friends, but his family didn't come. So many of these young men did not have their family. My mother came and went back and forth with this hospital, and one day when she was coming back for treatment, one of the women visitors-- I don't know who she was visiting on that ward, but it couldn't have been an AIDS patient. It wasn't all AIDS. It was another adjacent wing for other people. And, so she must have been part of that. But she happened to be at the nurses’ station. And as my mother went by, she said, well, if you ask me, this disease has one thing going for it. It's killing all the right people. And so, you know, I didn't say anything to her because I was just so consumed-- You know, with my mother being back in the hospital, I didn't want to start anything, but I memorized that killing all the right people thing, and I knew I was going to write a show about that because I wanted to strangle her. And so I did. And that show turned out to be the one that we did with Tony Goldwyn, you know, and we got-- We got a lot of attention for it, and I hope that it helps, you know, help some people in the medical community, you know, change their minds about things. We had to transfer my mother eventually to the Sherman Oaks burn center because they became a hospital that was friendly to eight patients. And, you know, the day my mother got there, the nurses swamped the ambulance and hugged her. It was unbelievable. and so that was a very good thing that happened. But anyway, so I was so far behind on writing scripts that when we started finally filming, I wrote the script that week. And this went on for the first year. I mean, I wrote the script every weekend, and, you know, they are really some of the best scripts. And I think it's true that sometimes you write your best stuff when you're, you know, when you have to. And so I wrote it every weekend. On Monday, we had the reading. by Tuesday, we blocked the show, and we taped it. On Thursday night, I edited it, and I wrote another one on Saturday and Sunday. The messenger came on Sunday night, because, you know, back then, we were still using paper typed scripts. So that went on, and I ended up writing, I think, about, I don't know, maybe 130 of the shows. But I really, you know, some of the people who I tried to, I never had. I never really run a writing table. I'm just not that kind of writer. I hate that because I want to help other writers, and I have helped other writers get started, but I don't do while sitting at a table, you know, saying things out loud. So I tried to give out scripts, but because it was a Southern show and it was so specific, it wasn't, it didn't work very well. I mean, I never put my name on a script that someone else wrote, even if I rewrote it entirely. And I also felt like I was passing that on because Larry Gelbart had done that for me. I was teaching school in what. So when I met him, I didn't know anything about comedy writing, really. I just knew that Mary Kay, I'd written a spec script who wanted to write well. You know, he completely rewrote us, and then they forget to send his scripts in, and we get nominated for emmys, and he was so gracious. And, so I learned that from him. I thought, I will never put my name on a script, even if I rewrite it totally. And I did not. But I could not find anybody until a young woman named Pam Norris came along. and she was just, she was from Atlanta. She was very brainy, you know, perfect. Sat had gone to Harvard at 16, and she was funny. Pam really was a godsend. And she started, you know, writing for the show, and that helped a lot. We really never had a writing staff. you know, we just didn't do that, so. But she was an enormous help and a really, a really, you know, gifted writer, and I was so appreciative of her. But that's how, you know, that's how we did Designing Women. And the cast was great. You know, they never really complained about that because they loved the scripts, and it was really fun until it wasn't. You know, Delta really, she had a very trying, emotional period on the show, for whatever reason. I've never exchanged a cross word with anyone in the cast, including her. But she did feel that when she gained weight-- It would be up to her to tell you where she got this idea, but that she was going to be let go because of her weight. And I would tell her every week, Delta, no one cares what you weigh. I could not care less what you weigh. I think it's even more interesting for a beauty queen to be dealing with this, and I will write a show for you about it, on and on. But it, you know, I think it was just a lot of things that had remained that had not been taken care of, you know, before Designing Women started. And anyway, so that became a very, very trying period for the show and for her. And, well, eventually, you know, she, we had to let her go. And I still, you know, I hate it, and she and I are friends to this day, and, you know, we, we can laugh about it now, but she has details that she'll tell you. And, you know, like the royal family will say, recollections may vary. You know, I just, I love her. And I, you know, I don't-- I'm not mad at her for anything, and I don't think she's mad at us, as she was then. But I think she, you know, there were a few people around on the crew who ended up being-- Was one person in particular who sold stories to the tabloids, and that may be somebody who was misinforming her of things. I don't know. I don't know. But it's just something, that, you know, we've decided it is what it is. And how lucky were we, you know, to have that experience, if only it could have gone on longer, because I think it was one of the great casts as the four of them. And even though we had other brilliant, wonderful people come in, for me, it never was, you know, what it was at the beginning without Delta.

Sharon Johnson: When you first sold the show, was it your intention to write all the scripts, or did it just sort of evolve into that?

Linda Bloodworth-Thomason: Well, you know what I had to learn from these mentors of mine, and I wanted to be that mentor, but I was so, you know, between my mom and the show, I just had to get the show done. And when people would write a script and turn it in, I saw right away, for me to rewrite a script is harder than for me to write it. You know what I mean? And, so I had a number of people who wrote-- You know, some of the scripts were, they were, they were pretty good, and they were from even talented writers, but they just weren't, they didn't, you know, they weren't Southern. None of the writers were Southern until Pam, and they really didn't get the women's voices right. And so I just started writing them myself. I think I wrote about the first, maybe 48 or something. I don't know. Alan Crow, who's been my assistant for 35 years, he knows everything about Designing Women. He is the institutional memory of Designing Women. I have to call him to ask him, what did I mean when I wrote this? And, you know, he's just wonderful. And he was a schoolteacher who was in the audience every week, you know. And he laughs. Now, you know, I could have been a serial killer. And you gave me a chance to, like, work for the show, because I was in the audience every week. Most people would call the police that-- I just loved him. And he's so funny himself. He's a writer, too, and he's written some wonderful plays, but anyway, he's still, he's still with me, and I just adore him. And he knows why I did that, you know, that I just had to do it. It was necessity for, you know, and then after my mom passed away, you know, I did try to hire more writers and things, but honestly, I can say it never really completely fit the bill. you know, until Pam came. And one of the writers, one of the teams on the show was Max Munchnick and David, his partner, who went on to do Will & Grace. And, you know, they were wonderful writers, we could tell. And of course, they went on and prove themselves beyond anything. So when I say this, you know, nobody fit the bill. It wasn't really a lack of talent. It was just, you know, the southern terrain and especially the southern female terrain. I think it's hard for a lot of people who didn't grow up in that atmosphere and in that zeitgeist. And so it was really just a question of that. And then after five years, I went on to Evening Shade, and I just contributed, you know, periodically. You know, Pam turned out some brilliant scripts, and so there, is a mixture of writing on it. I ended up doing the same thing on Evening Shade for the first year and the same thing on hearts of fire for most of those shows, just because it was easier. But we never had a writing table. I would just assign writers a script to give them a chance, you know, and often they were good. And I didn't rewrite people nearly as much on Evening Shade and Hearts Afire as I did on Designing Women.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Well, they also had a lot of templates then, right? Like, even though it was a very different show.

Linda Bloodworth-Thomason: Yes. Once they got going, you know, that it was pretty apparent what the show was about now. Everybody acted and talked, you know, and if I went over there after I went to Evening Shade, if I went over there and they were, like, getting out of control. I remember the one show, they were all in antebellum dresses sliding down the railing and stuff. And I was just like, what is going on? I was like, the house mother who's been on vacation. Like, this show is so out of control. But I don't know. It all worked out. It all worked out. And, you know, the friendships still go on to this day. I mean, I'm really, really close-- Losing Dixie about killed me. She came to my little town for the foundation in Poplar Bluff with her pianist. She put on such a show there, lying on the piano, singing all of her songs. I just remember Dixie singing, you know, I Get a Kick Out of You. and Bewitched Bothered and Bewildered and looking at a couple of these really redneck brothers in my hometown who were in the front row and just staring at her, you know, just goggle eyed. And she's in that, you know, it's the same show she performed at the Carlisle. And I thought, this is such a great cultural coming together of all these deer hunters in my little town coming to see Dixie Carter, you know, perform her Carlisle act, but it really worked. And then Leslie Jordan came, and, oh, my gosh, you know, my town has not really fully evolved on LGBTQ things, and I speak my mind in the paper, and they tolerate it, and that's just the way it is. But when Leslie Jordan came, I didn't know how. Oh, sold out. All the little old church ladies laughing their you-know-what's off. And the next day, the headline in the paper was about Leslie was born and fell into his mother's high heels and how hilarious he was. Well, you know, that's an LGBTQ thing. I mean, Leslie was old fashioned, and he did those jokes that I understand why some members of the gay community don't love it. But, you know, I think in his own way, he was a bridge, you know? And when he tells that story of his military dad saying-- Leslie was twirling the baton in the front yard, you know, and his dad would say, Leslie, I'm going to pay you to twirl in the backyard. I'm sorry. That's funny, you know, I mean, that's just like a Norman Lear kind of joke. You know, Leslie was such a transitional figure, in that way. Who else came? Well, Lily. Oh, my God. Lily Tomlin came, and she just brought the house down. You know, she did her act. So all of the, you know-- Designing Women has been well supported. and the friendships go on. Jean and I never really got to know each other that much. I mean, we got to know each other but never really close on the show because we were always so busy and, you know. Anyway, we have recently grown quite close, you know, after Richard died, and we've helped each other during the pandemic, and so that's been lovely. Jenna Carter, Dixie's daughter, I just adore. And she and I are very close. And Annie, I just talked to. They give me their old designer purses every year because we have a thing called power of the purse in my hometown. And every year when I call in August, they go, no, you're going to take my Prada. I know they hate to hear from me, but anyway, they've all been great. And, we started-- Our spiritual home is in Little Rock, Arkansas, where the villa Marre, which is the Sugarbaker building, the exterior that's--

Susan Lambert Hatem: Used in the show.

Linda Bloodworth-Thomason: Yeah. And we would go back there and have, Bill and Hillary. Bill Clinton was just governor then. I know I should say president and first lady. But anyway, I'm just going to say Bill and Hillary because it's easier. And we would-- They would have these wonderful parties for us. And, everybody in Little Rock just really, you know, adopted Designing Women. It is really a Little Rock show. Even my brother-in-law, doctor Dan Thomason, who's an optometrist in Little Rock, but he was always in a lot of plays and everything. When Reggie McDonald, Suzanne's accountant, absconded, with all of her money, I asked Danny to come out and play that role. And he was so good, and he even got offered a role on Alf from being on that. But he said, no, I had to go back. I'm an optometrist anyway. And then, you know, we didn't have guest stars because I didn't want to do that. I just always felt that was kind of cheap, you know, to have a guest star on to get attention. But the only big guest star we ever really had was Dolly, and she came on the show as Jean's angel the night she had her little girl. And so that was thrilling. I always regretted we didn't have Elizabeth Taylor. But we heard from-- The pedigree of Designing Women is astounding in terms of, you know, we heard from everybody. We heard, the first one came from Oprah, who quoted the lines. And actually, it was a telegram, which I saved, and she was quoting a line from, ah, something that Dixie said about to Delta, explaining something about, you know, in the end, all that really matters is what was truly said and truly felt and how we treated one another. And she liked that line. And so she wrote me about it. And then, we just heard from everybody. Martina Navratilova wrote me a lovely letter. You know, we heard from a lot of-- Ray Charles loved the show. Prince. I heard from Princess Die I know, that's crazy. It was, it was just, ah, you know, and then Elizabeth Taylor was actually calling Delta on her own, saying, I have to play your mother. And I think she saw the resemblance of them physically. You know, she thought, wouldn't that be fun and a hoot to come on the show. So that's a regret, you know, that that never happened.

Susan Lambert Hatem: I would have liked to see that episode, for sure.

Linda Bloodworth-Thomason: Oh, I know they would have been so-- They would have been funny together. They really would have. They were, they actually had a lot of the same personality, from what I can discern. You know, Elizabeth Taylor always seemed a little fragile, but yet she was so strong, you know, the way she stood up for AIDS and, and for her friends and Delta's like that, too.

Susan Lambert Hatem: That's amazing. So what, other, like, what are some of your favorite episodes that you remember fondly for one reason or another?

Linda Bloodworth-Thomason: Well, obviously, the one with my brother-in-law, because I'm very close to him, and I thought he was hilarious in that one. Of my favorite episodes is something called Reservations for Eight when the four couples go away together. That is my show.

Sharon Johnson: That is my all-time favorite episode. It's my mother's favorite episode. It's my sister's favorite episode.

Linda Bloodworth-Thomason: Oh, I'm so happy, because I've never heard everybody always says They Shoot Fat Women or, The Beauty Contest.

Sharon Johnson: I love those, too.

Linda Bloodworth-Thomason: I love that one.

Sharon Johnson: Yeah, it's so perfect. It's so perfect in terms of the, for lack of a better term, the battle of the sexes in the way that it.

Linda Bloodworth-Thomason: That's why I love it.

Sharon Johnson: Yes. And the way that it just, you know, both sides are stating their case and, and they're all mad at each other, and at the end, they go and they end up on the dance floor. I mean, it was, I love that episode so much.

Linda Bloodworth-Thomason: So it was a good male-female. What we've been, what we started out talking about, about, you know, Southern men and women. and I love that, even when they fought, it wasn't unpleasant, you know, when Dixie gives that big speech about how, you know, I mean, men have done all the raping and the pillaging and created all the mayhem and blah, blah, blah, you know, in the world. So if you aren't happy with the way things turned out, you have no one to blame but yourself, you know? And then Hal gets up and goes, oh, yeah, well, let me tell you about women. And she goes, what? Because they're always late, because he has nothing else to say. And they just did it so beautifully. and that whole show was just, I don't know, there was just, that was kind of when, you know, love was in the air on the stage, and everybody fallen in love, you know, in real life. And so that was just a really fun show to do. I love the, I love some of just really goofy shows. You know, even Julia gets her head stuck in a fence. I mean, just some of the silly things they did. And, you know, we always resented if anybody ever says we were broad because we never did anything that couldn’t really happen. You know, we made sure that it could really happen. And if people go, oh, well, that's crazy, Delta Burke carrying around that gun and having that pig. Not really, you know, if you live in the South. You know, I know a couple of people who, I know a woman who had an AK 47, and I know a woman who had a pig for a pet. And so it just happens. It's just something that happens. Yeah. And we do put our crazy people on their front porch. I mean, that is for sure that the south. The North embraces therapy and the South embraces, you know, just showing it, just-- Yeah, he's crazy, you know, and we love her. And then they think it's funny and they laugh at the crazy things she says, whoever it is. And the whole point of the show, I guess, was to say that, you know, we're not that different. I mean, and I just thought, what is this big thing of looking down on the South? And so, you know, I have a play now which we can talk about in a little bit or whenever you want, but, you know, called Designing Women, and it's called The Big, Split. And it's about, you know, the whole country, being really cut in half over all of these issues. And it happens at Sugarbakers. And, it's today. The women are depicted as they would be today, you know, and everybody's had enough, and everybody's finally seeing who, who one another really are. So anyway, Dixie has a line in the play where she tells somebody, she says, you know, I just never understood why the North looks down on the South. You know, when you get right down to it, we are really just like New Yorkers, only in a good mood. And I think that is so true, you know, that Southerners just, I mean, they're very self-effacing and they're very funny, and they really admit when they have just, you know, gotten it right between the eyes, but they laugh about it. It's just a Southern trait. but just for pound for pound, you know, intellect and curiosity about the world, and talent and, you know, being erudite, great storytellers, you know, I mean, we don't—We, we don't have to bow to anybody. So that was really, I guess that more than anything, was the real reason I wanted to do Designing Women, you know, was to, was to show that. And in particular, I think Dixie's the one who carried that torch, you know, and did it so well.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Yes. Now, I heard a rumor that Dixie Carter was more conservative and that she made a deal with you that every Julia rant she would get to. Singh.

Linda Bloodworth-Thomason: Well, let me say that Dixie was more conservative, but by that, I mean, Dixie voted for Nelson Rockefeller. I don't think you would. Dixie Carter. Yeah, voting for Donald Trump. And certainly Dixie Carter was a giant champion of the gay community. Yes, I would tell her, yeah, I would always bribe her and say, you can sing How-- And she's also very religious, you know, and I would say, you can sing How Great Thou Art hymn, you know, if you'll say this other stuff. And she'd go, okay. Dixie, she had such respect for writers, and she's the one who really stayed the closest to me on show night. You know, she was always coming to me. She had no ego, because if I did direct, I would be very direct with the actors. I don't coddle actors. I mean, I'm very pleasant. You know, I have a-- I think I have my mother's temperament. I've never yelled at anyone. But, you know, I say, listen, this is what I mean by this. And if they can't get it right away, and this-- I know SAG will hate me for saying this, but, you know, I have given them line readings because it's just a shortcut and we're in a hurry, you know. And I say, this is how I hear it, and if you don't like it, don't use it, you know. But if this helps you, this is how I hear it in my head, because I've said every line 20 times before I wrote it. And Dixie was the one who loved that. And she would come over, you know, she had a long speech, and she'd say, right in here, right in here. But of course, I'm not trying to imply that I guided those speeches, because they were all 100% Dixie, but I'm just saying, if she hit a little, you know, corner where she wasn't sure, I could fill it in for her, and she'd go, thank you, thank you. And then she'd just nail it exactly like we just talked about it. But the whole speech was always hers. And she, more than anyone, but, well, she and Jean, they were like, to the letter like you wrote it, but they all were very good about that. I have to say, I was blessed. I know a lot of actors, they add their own stuff and they improvise, and I work really hard on the speeches and stuff. You know, there is, there is a melodic element to it, and there's a rhythm, and I didn't want that broken, if we could help it. And the cast really respected that, and I think that contributed to the overall, you know, appreciation, of the show, that it was very erudite and it was. Language was, you know, well regarded, and I think people like that.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Yeah, yeah, it was a really beautiful balance of, like, you know, sort of amazing dialogue, but-- And then that verbal, lovely verbal banter and then I like the physical comedy of, you know.

Linda Bloodworth-Thomason: Oh, yeah, we could be silly. Yeah, I'm not talking about that part, because they probably did throw in some stuff there, but I don't remember a lot of physical comedy. But they were all good at it. You know, they're just good. I mean, there's a reason. I know Delta's retired, but, you know, Jean and Annie just go on and on because they're just good at what they do. They're so good.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Dixie Carter was really great at the physical comedy.

START HERE START HERE START HERE START HERE  

Linda Bloodworth-Thomason: Yeah. You know, when she had her pantyhose tucked in her pants. I mean, now, that's kind of an old stereotype joke, but I think she was-- We were one of the first to do that because that really happened to me at a big governor's event in Arkansas. It was very humiliating. And, oh, yeah, I stood up, took a bow when I was introduced from the stage. Oh, yeah. And the people around me were gasping. And when I sat down, my husband whispered, you know, I think, I think something's wrong back there. And I, you know, I just felt like they went, oh, my God, it was just pantyhose. And, you know, and checked in wrong my top, and, oh, God, it was so horrible. So then I came back and, oh, I used everything in my real life for the show because I was always desperate. But anyway, yeah, I think they were all good physical comedians, too. And, you know, I want to say Alice Ghostley was so brilliant on the show, and we all adored her. And, my God, she got a huge laugh on every line. And Meshach, I cannot. You've got to have Delta on and have her talk about her relationship with Meshach because they just became a couple of, you know, peas in a pod. They were inseparable. They were as close in real life as they were on the show. And, you know, no matter. I mean, you couldn't do this show today because she was so racially inappropriate with him, you know, just saying horribly racist things that were said with love. And you really, you know, you've got to really understand the South and understand where she was coming from to keep liking her, you know, because she really loved Anthony, and he, the character, understood that, and Meshach understood it, how a racist beauty queen, you know, can traverse that very tricky area.

Sharon Johnson: I love the episode where they're stuck in the snowstorm on their way-- Yes. Oh, my gosh.

Linda Bloodworth-Thomason: That's where she says some really horrible stuff. And really, his place is to sleep in the car, and he says, may God have mercy on your soul. I mean, she treated him so badly, but she loves him so much. But that is the narcissism, you know, of Suzanne. And she really was a lot like Scarlett in that way. But, yeah, Meshach was a terrible loss to all of us. And just, I used to get letters at the start because people didn't like it that Anthony had been in prison. And I'm just doing another stereotype. And I would always say if anybody in the press would ask, you know, I wanted him to be a stereotype. I wanted, you know, I taught school in Watts. I knew a lot of young black men, and I wanted, to show a black man who had been in prison and let him emerge from the stereotype, you know, victorious. And he did. I mean, he ended up being a partner in the business, so I enjoyed that trajectory.

Sharon Johnson: Yeah. Something else you don't really see on television at all, that kind of character who makes his way in the world after getting out of prison.

Linda Bloodworth-Thomason: I think people are afraid. Yeah, they're afraid to. Like right now, if you're going to have a gay, a person, an actor of color, or a gay or a trans person, it would be very hard to not have them have a positive role. You know what I mean? And that's really cheating that community, you know? I mean, they should be allowed to be anything, but I think most writers would be terrified to have, you know-- It's really hard to find black villains, even unless it's an all-black movie, you know, because people just don't want to be part of that. I don't know. We have so far to go still, you know, and all in working out all of these things.

Sharon Johnson: Indeed.

Linda Bloodworth-Thomason: But, little by little, I guess we get there. That's something that I coined, so don't try to reuse that. Okay?  

Susan Lambert Hatem: I won't. It's good.

Linda Bloodworth-Thomason: Or you like to send me a quarter? Okay? Every time you say it. Anyway. Oh, I would love to tell people to please go see the play. Can I do that?

Sharon Johnson: Yes!

Susan Lambert Hatem: So let's talk. Yes. It was done at Horizon Theater, one of my favorite theaters in Atlanta.

Linda Bloodworth-Thomason: You know Lisa Adler? Do you know Lisa?

Susan Lambert Hatem: I don't know her, but I know of her.

Linda Bloodworth-Thomason: But you love that theater because you're from Atlanta, right?

Susan Lambert Hatem: I'm from Atlanta.

Linda Bloodworth-Thomason: Oh, my gosh.

Susan Lambert Hatem: I try to go every time I can when I'm back.

Linda Bloodworth-Thomason: Well, you know, what we're experiencing is the directors of these theaters are almost uniformly so excited to do Designing Women the play, but their boards are often conservative republicans who do not want to present this material. And so it has been a challenge, you know, to-- But now we're moving and now we're really going because the play has built a reputation. And we started in the middle of winter, in the middle of COVID in Fayetteville, Arkansas, because that is where, you know, it's a beautiful, beautiful campus. And, you know, and again, Harry and I are from Arkansas, really. And, Fayetteville has one of the most beautiful theaters, TheatreSquared, run by Bob Ford. And, it's just gorgeous. And they wanted to do it. We had told them about it and they said, oh, we'd love to have it, because, again, Arkansas kind of is Designing Women's home. So we started there and they were a little bit worried because it is still Arkansas. You know, it still votes Republican now. Sarah Huckabee's the governor now, so you can imagine. But anyway, I mean, we started and it started building and it just got bigger and bigger until it was sold out. Sold out, sold out. And, you know, COVID was raging, there were blizzards, and it broke the box office record, since their inception.

Sharon Johnson: Wow.

Linda Bloodworth-Thomason: So next we went to Little Rock to, The Arkansas Rep and Will Trice. So we went there again, middle of COVID, middle of winter. This was six months later. Now, that's been there for like 30 years. Broke the box office record. When we left there, it was sold out every night. So word starting to spread a little bit. Then we go to Horizon. The same thing happened there. That was a really good cast in Atlanta. I mean, those actors. We had one actress there who was really channeling Delta Burke. She was just on fire. We want to bring her to other venues. Then we went to Bowling Green, Kentucky. Same thing. The director loved to play, was worried sick because everybody there is really on their boards, Republican. They weren't for it. We did it. They came to the play. The lady who was most against it not only loved it so much, she started bringing people back. So we felt like, you know, we're kind of bringing-- If people will have a sense of humor about it, we're kind of bringing people together. You know, we only had three people, I believe, walk out since the play started. And I don't even know why they came. They must have come just to do us or something. but the cast is so interesting. The original cast insisted-- I would say four people in the cast had been cut off from their families because of. And so we had Carmen Cusack. Carmen played Julia. I don't know if you know her, but she's quite the star on Broadway. She just, she did Steve Martin's Bright Star. She just was nominated for a Tony also. She was wonderful as Dixie. And then we've had Katherine LaNasa ever since, who's just been killing it. So the next stop is Dallas, I think. It is political. I mean, we didn't shy away from it. I'll just tell you the storyline. I mean, briefly, Charlene comes down with COVID and they all get it. And this starts in 2020, and they're all quarantined. And during the quarantine, they realize that Suzanne had sex with Donald Trump at a beauty pageant and it was where she played a judge. And, you know, it's a pageant. I mean, not played a judge. She was a judge. Sorry. So, you know, of course, all hell breaks loose and, you know, it's cataclysmic. I mean, it's like, you know, the end of the world has happened and they decide they can't resolve it. They just cannot resolve it. They can't get over it. Julia Sugarbaker cannot get over it. And they end up, they're going to split up. And it's just about the, coming together again, you know, how they, how they sort it out. But anyway, it is really funny. It really is. And, I mean, tons of laughs and I just know it would be successful.

Susan Lambert Hatem: In LA, for television. Is there a reboot in the process?

Linda Bloodworth-Thomason: Well, there could be, you know. Yeah, maybe. So, you know, we just, I just said, okay, you know what? I'm just going to write it as a play. CBS was so wonderful. Jeff Saganski and Howard Stringer, who was the chairman, Jeff was the president. They just tell me every week, you know, when, what I was telling you before, the reason I got to do all that, they never knew what I was doing from one week to the next. They told all the censors and everybody, the note people, just leave me alone. They let me write anything I wanted to write for the whole seven years. It'll never happen again to me or to anyone else. And I don't even know why it happened. It was a magical gift. But I thought if I get into playwriting, I'll kind of get that back, you know. and so that's, that's what's happened. You know, I'm just writing it the way I want. And I think we're slowly, you know, showing that all these conservative-- I didn't know so many conservative people were the money suppliers to the theaters, you know, that they approved the money. I didn't realize that. So that's been the problem. But, yes. So now I think. I think what might happen is that we'll see how the play goes, you know, and I, the play, I don't know if it'll have a life after the election. So that could happen. That could happen. Anyway, you guys have been so great. Thank you for letting me spout off. It's-- I don't see a shrink. I probably should, but now I know I don't need to.  

Susan Lambert Hatem: Just come on anytime.

Melissa Roth: Just come on the podcast. That's right.

Linda Bloodworth-Thomason: I just feel like I was lying on the sofa all afternoon.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Thank you so much.

Linda Bloodworth-Thomason: Thank you for letting me do it. It was an honor. And I love what you're doing. It's so needed. And, really, after this conversation and hearing you guys, hearing your response and then what your thoughts are, I just feel like, we've got to get the issues that we talked about. We got to find a way to make them bigger that keeps the spirit of our fight going. Yeah. Because we are down and out right now. I feel it, too. So thank you for, you know, giving me a little platform to say all that. I really appreciate it.  

Melissa Roth: We appreciate you.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Yes. And your philanthropy. Is it the Claudia Foundation?

Linda Bloodworth-Thomason: All of our programs where we send the girls to college and we have a big reading program is the Designing Women Foundation. I found out people were more likely to give me money if it was the Designing Women Foundation. And they would, I don't know Claudia. What was she like?

Sharon Johnson: Whatever it takes.

Linda Bloodworth-Thomason: I just thought, yeah, I mean, Mother wouldn't mind if I could, you know, if it makes it more palatable to people. Anyway, thank you so much. Have a great weekend. What's left of it. And, yes, I will. Yeah. A little later when I have something new to say. But I would love to come back. Okay?

Sharon Johnson: Absolutely. Anytime.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Thank you so very much.

Sharon Johnson: Bye.

Linda Bloodworth-Thomason: Okay, guys, thank you. Bye-bye.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Bye-bye.

Sharon Johnson: In today's audio-ography, you can learn more about Designing Women at Designing Women online and also the Designing Women Foundation.

Susan Lambert Hatem: And in our description, there will be links to articles written by Linda in the Hollywood Reporter talking about sexual assault in Hollywood, Les Moonves, and how her trajectory at CBS took a nosedive as soon as Moonves came to power.

Sharon Johnson: Please help us make the show by going to patreon.com/80stvladies, and we are.

Susan Lambert Hatem: On Instagram, Twitter, and all the social channels @80stvladies.

Sharon Johnson: Listeners, we have a very special holiday present for all of you. We are dropping a bonus episode this Friday, December 1, on a new TV holiday movie from Lifetime. It's called Ladies of the 80s, A Diva's Christmas.

Susan Lambert Hatem: And our special guest for this bonus episode is the co-writer of A Diva's Christmas, who also wrote on the Golden Girls, Gilmore Girls, Roseanne, and many other amazing 80s 90s and 2000s TV ladies shows.

Sharon Johnson: Don't miss it.

Susan Lambert Hatem: It's gonna be spectacular. A holiday extravaganza of a show, Sharon.

Sharon Johnson: Everybody loves an extravaganza. And you're really gonna love this one.

Susan Lambert Hatem: And we've never dropped an episode on a Friday. I don't know what's gonna happen.

Sharon Johnson: It's all just going to be wonderful.

Susan Lambert Hatem: Yeah. ‘Cause we just talked to Linda Bloodworth-Thomason, so everything is better now. Now, don't miss it.

Sharon Johnson: As always, we hope 80s TV Ladies brings you joy and laughter and lots of fabulous old and new shows to watch. All of which will bring us closer toward being amazing Ladies of the 21st century. See you next time.

Amy Englehardt:  Sexy and so pretty.

Susan Lambert Hatem: And here's a little December treat. Stay tuned for the trailer and a very special clip from Ladies of the 80s: A Dva's Christmas Lifetime holiday movie starring Lonnie Anderson, Morgan Fairchild, Linda Gray, Donna Mills and Nicollette Sheridan. Enjoy.

Male Announcer: Long time popular daytime soap opera The Great Lakes is getting a little holiday reprieve.

Loni Anderson: Exquisite.  

Female Announcer: A Lifetime original movie.  

Loni Anderson: This is gonna be great. The four of us together. She's back!  

Female Announcer: By the legendary divas.  

Donna Mills: If she's doing the show, I'm not.  

Female Announcer: Together at last.  

Morgan Fairchild: Fasten your facelifts, ladies. It's gonna be a bumpy weekend.

Travis Burns: I'm stoked that you're available to direct this.

Loni Anderson: Are you two an item?  

Taylor Ann Thompson: Friends from college.  

Donna Mills: With benefits?  

Taylor Ann Thompson/Travis Burns: No.  

Morgan Freeman: You don't always get to choose who you fall for.  

Nicollette Sheridan: Listen to her. She's had five husbands.

Morgan Freeman: And I wouldn't trade any one of them. Well, maybe that last one.

All: Merry Christmas!  

Female Announcer: Ladies of the 80s: A Diva's Christmas premieres Saturday, December 2 at 8:00. Part of It's a Wonderful Lifetime.

Travis: Ladies, now that you're all here, I want to introduce you to our, director, Nell.

Taylor: Hi.  

Morgan: Lovely bone structure.  

Linda: Female forward of him to hire her.

Travis: Hey, Ladies. Nell is incredibly talented. And honestly, we are very excited to have her on this project.

Taylor: Oh, well, actually, I'm the lucky one to be working with you Ladies, all legends in your own right. And of course, Alex, whose writing really pops. It's so witty and smart and yet relatable.  

Loni: Are you two an item?

Taylor/Travis: No.

Taylor: Friends from college. Best friends from college. Well, I mean, back then.  

Donna: Best friends with benefits?

Taylor : No, no, no. Nothing like this. Strictly professional engagement, ladies. No, I've hired Nell because she's amazingly talented.

Morgan: You said that.

Travis: I did. Right. I mean, she is wonderful and awesome, and I trust her. And, you know, I really like working with her.

Taylor: We do well together.

Donna: Is he blushing?  

Linda: I think he's blushing.

Taylor: Anyhow--

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